How long before Feaster makes a move, and WHAT does he do?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

You are exactly like the 3 MBA grads I hired in my business and told them to forget everything they learned and to pay attention to the industry they are now working in. All the classes do is show potential BOSSES that you have the ability to learn what you need in the real world. And before you give me your wonderful take on what I understand, I run a $300M per year business and have for 20 years.

While I agree with the MBA bit, it really irks me when people have to throw out dollar figure amounts to demand respect from others, and doesn't seem very professional for a business manager to have to do (especially on the Internet where EVERYBODY knows who you are). You could have just said a large revenue-generating company and left it at that. It's like a dick swinging contest for white collar narcassists. I really hope your company operates in the black, which is a completely separate matter itself.

[MisterJoji]

With regards to Lecavalier, I agree he is not a buyout candidate merely because it would cost nearly 50 million dollars over the next 14 years, and this is Tampa we're talking about not NYC. For that reason if Tampa management really want to shed themselves of Vinny's contract they may have to provide assets as a sweetener (like we did to Buffalo for taking Kotalik). For this reason, I don't think we would have to provide a blue-chip asset. We have a glut of wingers and need a legit centerman, but Vinny's has a 7.7 million cap hit, so I could see 2 scenarios:

Tampa keeps some of his cap-hit
Tampa keeps somewhere around 2 million of his cap-hit making Vinny essentially cost us 5.7 million per year. Because Tampa retains part of the cap-hit, they probably won't have the sweetener as previously mentioned, so:
Lecavalier + 2 million for Cammalleri or Glencross + Granlund

Tampa doesn't retain any cap-hit
Lecavalier + 2nd round pick for Cammalleri or Glencross + 4th round pick.

Not sure if I'd want Vinny in either situation to be honest though. Signed for another 7 years, which will be until he's 39 and he hasn't had a 70+ point season in 4 years and has had injury problems. Don't know if he'd waive his NMC to come here either.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

With regards to Lecavalier, I agree he is not a buyout candidate merely because it would cost nearly 50 million dollars over the next 14 years, and this is Tampa we're talking about not NYC. For that reason if Tampa management really want to shed themselves of Vinny's contract they may have to provide assets as a sweetener (like we did to Buffalo for taking Kotalik). For this reason, I don't think we would have to provide a blue-chip asset. We have a glut of wingers and need a legit centerman, but Vinny's has a 7.7 million cap hit, so I could see 2 scenarios:

Tampa keeps some of his cap-hit
Tampa keeps somewhere around 2 million of his cap-hit making Vinny essentially cost us 5.7 million per year. Because Tampa retains part of the cap-hit, they probably won't have the sweetener as previously mentioned, so:
Lecavalier + 2 million for Cammalleri or Glencross + Granlund

Tampa doesn't retain any cap-hit
Lecavalier + 2nd round pick for Cammalleri or Glencross + 4th round pick.

Not sure if I'd want Vinny in either situation to be honest though. Signed for another 7 years, which will be until he's 39 and he hasn't had a 70+ point season in 4 years and has had injury problems. Don't know if he'd waive his NMC to come here either.

I don't think Tampa will move Lecavalier for the sake of moving him. They certainly won't retain salary. And it is doubtful they will take a big contract in return.

I think the most likely scenario is that they just keep him. But if a team wanted him they would have to give up something reasonable to get him. Not the moon perhaps. But they would likely have to take back salary and give up a decent prospect. At the least.

And again, I am not suggesting the Flames should. I just think this is something Feaster might be considering. You get a top 6C and you get to tell Iginla he has Lecavalier and Tanguay as line-mates for the forseeable future. Meaning you get to ink him (or at least you hope).

[browna]

I would think that Feaster would want to try for another home run with Richards or Lecavalier as a last ditch effort to use some of his few remaining TB contacts to good use, but both are signed for 7 more years. I really don't think the ones who hold the purse strings are going to want that, and such a move would reek of Feaster's personal desperation on top of that.

On that last point, it will be very interesting out of all this; if I were King and or the owners, I'd be asking myself when he presents his next proposed trade or move, (outside of the usual call ups and send downs) going to be for restoring his or Flames hockey operations' reputation just as much as it is changing the roster around?
As absurd as that sounds, he has to regain the perception he's lost in the hockey public (mere hours earlier he was once again being praised in general for pulling this supposedly off) out of this debacle and only way to do that is to redeem himself by making moves, and quick...that hopefully turn out solid.

[LouCypher]

I wonder if they will be gun shy when it comes to offer sheets now, I almost want to see another one attempted just because waiver rule aside it actually almost worked the way they structured the deal. Although I cant recall if there are any other key RFAs out there.

[Poe969]

What makes you think it almost worked? The Flames gave him an offer sheet and the Avs had 7 days to match, they matched it in hours. It didn't almost work, it almost cripled this franchise.....

[LouCypher]

Originally Posted by Poe969

What makes you think it almost worked? The Flames gave him an offer sheet and the Avs had 7 days to match, they matched it in hours. It didn't almost work, it almost cripled this franchise.....

Without the waiver rule, which obviously is hindsight.Without the 2 games played in Russia then it is a normal offer sheet. Deal was structured so that it would appear from everything the Flame's knew about the situation to be to high for Colorado to pay. Obviously they did match but the price was about as high as you would want to go. They didnt just throw a lowball offer sheet that the kid didnt sign, he signed and was willing to go to Calgary which in turn put Colorado in the position that they would pay much more then they intended.

[Poe969]

So you agree that it didn't almost work at all.

[LouCypher]

Originally Posted by Poe969

So you agree that it didn't almost work at all.

From a strategy standpoint if you take out the massive oversight of the waiver rule (which I give no excuse for) The offer was built to work, however they misjudged Colorados willingness to pay which is pretty hard to judge until you actually do the sheet. The guy is a holdout, situation looks like it wasnt going to get solved soon. So Calgary made a good attempt with the sheet, which we all know rarely work but again its not like they were offering to underpay O'Reilly, they offered what he wanted and he signed thus it worked for the player and worked for the Flames. Colorado nor most teams probably would not need a whole week on this, if you can pay the money then you jsut match, if he is not worth it in Colorados eyes he walks. If anything the only thing that didnt really work here was Calgary's gamble that Colorado would not be willing to pay. Not exactly a huge gamble, more of a calculated risk.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I don't think Tampa will move Lecavalier for the sake of moving him. They certainly won't retain salary. And it is doubtful they will take a big contract in return.

I think the most likely scenario is that they just keep him. But if a team wanted him they would have to give up something reasonable to get him. Not the moon perhaps. But they would likely have to take back salary and give up a decent prospect. At the least.

And again, I am not suggesting the Flames should. I just think this is something Feaster might be considering. You get a top 6C and you get to tell Iginla he has Lecavalier and Tanguay as line-mates for the forseeable future. Meaning you get to ink him (or at least you hope).

I mostly agree with everything you've said here. The only reason Lecavalier was brought up was due to the Feaster connection and that Vinik doesn't have deep pockets for a team that lost more than 13 million last year. So IF they actually do want to move Vinny they would definitely take back a contract like Cammalleri's since his ends after next season as opposed to after the 2018/19 season. And since that contract is a bit of an albatross, if they don't want to retain some salary, they have to through in something to make it worthwhile.

[bubbsy]

i don't think flames do anything. some medium/minor deals during the deadline, then some big changes up top during the offseason, and an interesting draft day where kipper/giordano/bouwmeester/tanguay/glencross are pieces moved to try to get another first rounder or a center.

i am worried about what this management group is capable of doing, so would prefer the next braintrust handles big overhauling changes to the roster.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

i don't think flames do anything. some medium/minor deals during the deadline, then some big changes up top during the offseason, and an interesting draft day where kipper/giordano/bouwmeester/tanguay/glencross are pieces moved to try to get another first rounder or a center.

i am worried about what this management group is capable of doing, so would prefer the next braintrust handles big overhauling changes to the roster.

I think you are right. If the flames are our out if it come deadline, i think with all that has gone on, Feaster will be fired at the end of the year. I could see ownership telling Feaster he can trade UFA's ( except Iggy), but no one that will still be under contract. I don't think ownership will trade Iggy unless Iginla tells them that there is 0% chance he will re-sign. I don't see Iggy saying that.

[Badgers Nose]

With Detroit moving to the Eastern conference it would be a good time for a trade between Calgary and Detroit. But I don't know who on that roster I would want for Bouw.

Of the guys that they would be willing to trade that is.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

With Detroit moving to the Eastern conference it would be a good time for a trade between Calgary and Detroit. But I don't know who on that roster I would want for Bouw.

Of the guys that they would be willing to trade that is.

Is this confirmed?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Is this confirmed?

When re-alignment does happen I would put it at %99.99 certainty that DET goes to the east. The re-alignment thread would be a good place to look this up. What does suck about that whole scenario is that unles CHI makes the cup finals regularly, that we could never see an original six final again.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

With Detroit moving to the Eastern conference it would be a good time for a trade between Calgary and Detroit. But I don't know who on that roster I would want for Bouw.

Of the guys that they would be willing to trade that is.

I would like Filppula but him being 28 and this team trying to get younger than that I do not see a fit.

[Mr.Coffee]

I think that it does take a certain skill-set to effectively evaluate assets and apply business acumen. I don't think you need to have experience in, or education in, any one particular background- meaning- you don't have to be a former player, a lawyer, a business graduate, an engineer, an anything. It doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not the GM has the skills and ability to negotiate good contracts, budget, hire not just competent staff but excellent staff, and read and react to where the team is today and where it's going. To be perfectly honest, this is a skill-set many people think they have, but don't. Many people get too emotionally attached to assets, and that's all these players are. If you removed yourself from the emotional irrationality of 'let's keep Iginla so he can retire here for a nice fairytale ending' or 'he's played well for X years, he deserves to do whatever the fata he wants', the reality is that the right business decision is sadly extremely obvious.

I think the problem is that most fans can't see a clear vision or direction with where this team is going and what this team is trying to do today. Since the Flames this season are not that great, it's easy to judge now and say 'obviously Feaster and co.'s plan would never have worked'. But how many people would have said that before the season started? I actually thought the Flames would have been better and was optimistic. I thought the following players would have been better: Iginla, Kiprusoff, Cervenka, Baertschi, Giordano... the list goes on.

I think the Flames need to get a clear direction or vision, I think they need to make that public, and I think they need to seriously look at a very rapid and huge transformation to all aspects of the organization, most importantly culture. This does mean Iginla has to go. Bottom line.

In my opinion the first thing this team needs to do, is request from Iginla the list of teams he'd be willing to go to (I've heard this was already done) and then start negotiating. To not trade Iginla this season prior to deadline day, and to see him walk off and sign with another team in the offseason... well I can't imagine what CP would look like that day.

[Sakari]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

You are exactly like the 3 MBA grads I hired in my business and told them to forget everything they learned and to pay attention to the industry they are now working in. All the classes do is show potential BOSSES that you have the ability to learn what you need in the real world. And before you give me your wonderful take on what I understand, I run a $300M per year business and have for 20 years.

And yet all you have to show for it is bragging rights on the internet. Where nobody cares.

[Otto29]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

Trade Iggy, Cammy, Stemper, Gio, Butler, Smith, Sarich, Jackman, Comeau and Scoreface (if you can convince him to waive his NTC) for prospects and draft picks and go from there.

Let all your UFAs walk, minus Cervenka, who gets re-signed at a much lower value.

Draft high, go with a youth movement next season by playing Wotherspoon, Breen, Granlund, Horak, Brossoit and whomever you nab with all of your newly acquired draft picks. Give Backlund and Baertschi all the ice time they can handle.

Ride Kipper on his final year, and trade him when he's on a roll, and go with Brossoit/Ramo as your tandem.

This is pretty much what the franchise needs, but they won't do it.

Thanks...i needed a laugh amongst all this negativity

[The Original FFIV]

There's a lot of talk on the board about Couterier and he might be the cheapest one to get from Philly but still will result in a king's ransom and we may not have the assets Philly wants. I can't see Bouwmeester waiving to go to Philly and Giordano or Brodie isn't going to cut it. One player I hope they are looking at is Burmistrov in WPG. 21 years old and has the upside we are looking for. Might cost us our 1st but I think Feaster is finally prepared to overpay to get a good C we so desperately need.