Calgary developer’s caught with pants down - Nenshi white knight or not?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Apparently that is exactly what is being requested.




http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/02/23...rs-association

I have no idea what else was involved in this whole thing blowing up to the degree it has,but demanding an apology before being allowed back into committee is extremely childish from my perspective.

It's like the city council equivalent of "taking your ball and going home" until someone else says sorry for upsetting you. I agree that some comments were likely out of line before by home bulder reps, but this is no way to handle the situation as the mayor of a major metropolis and a guy that ran a campaign on getting along with others and openness in council.

We met with CHBA prior to this letter and gave them every opportunity to clarify and rectify the situation. They declined to do that.

[Hemi-Cuda]

The only ones Nenshi seems to be consistently pissing off are those who had an easy ride under Bronconnier and who are still stuck in the Old Boys Club mentality. That must mean he's doing something right

[Ozy_Flame]

First Lady, you post your husband's viewpoints on CP topics, then duck for cover and claim no responsibilty, as if you were completely absolved of agreeing with his viewpoints (or the other side), as well as continually use your husband's blog as some sort of Wallstreet Journal opinion that we all need to respect. I think I know more about your husband's viewpoints than yours, which is sad because as an aspiring politican (and you are, you ran for alderman and are still active in political conversations such at this), this is the complete anti-thesis of what a citizen would want in their representatives. At least Nenshi has the ability to defend what he says, you just post husband drive-bys and I think that's what people are upset with you a little about - you've always done this.

Also, the fact that you lumped me in with Valo is actually funny - we agree on most absolutely nothing and have fought tooth and nail against each other for a while on many topics

[valo403]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Which I've done.

At times though, it really doesn't matter what I post or comment on; the same group (Ozy, Muta, Valo403, oh and there's longsufering, a little late to the party) always come in and bombard me the same reactions.

Probably because you do the exact same thing every time

[troutman]

apathetic hipster population of Calgary

Next meeting Friday at Broken City. A voting block of 50 people!

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

First Lady, you post your husband's viewpoints on CP topics, then duck for cover and claim no responsibilty,

Because I'm not responsible for them.

Am I also responsible for Chris's blog?

Are you responsible for your brothers' (Muta) comments?

which is sad because as an aspiring politican (and you are, you ran for alderman and are still active in political conversations such at this), this is the complete anti-thesis of what a citizen would want in their representatives.

GIVE IT A REST. I have lost track of how many times I have told you; I'M NOT RUNNING AGAIN.

At least Nenshi has the ability to defend what he says, you just post husband drive-bys and I think that's what people are upset with you a little about - you've always done this.

Everyone has a different posting style. How you react to that is your problem, not mine.

[Tinordi]

Don't post your thoughts if you aren't prepared to let them stand up to scrutiny. This is the GD internet for god's sake.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Because I'm not responsible for them.

Am I also responsible for Chris's blog?

Are you responsible for your brothers' (Muta) comments?

You still don't get it, do you?

The whole babe in the woods routine is growing a little stale and I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bunk

We met with CHBA prior to this letter and gave them every opportunity to clarify and rectify the situation. They declined to do that.

OK....that still doesn't explain the position that Nenshi has taken in regards to the written public apology that seemingly is required to getting the CHBA back to the table INCLUDING the lady that he and you have both pointed out was more than fair in her dealings.

It just seems so contradictory to mending the break in relations, as well what he said his ways of doing things would be if elected. It's a very odd response IMO...in that it's a "my way or the highway" type thing and that isn't constructive for anyone.

Just to clarify as well...I get why he feels the way he does if all that is being claimed was said......was said. What I dont understand is how this demand is any better or different in returning things to a working relationship. people disagree on things all the time and things are often said that shouldn't be, particularly in politics.

It's all about how those are handled though and IMO, he has completely whiffed on this one. Somewhat disappointing coming from a guy that one would think understands that tolerance and diplomacy should be the way to resolution as an elected official....never mind the possibilty that he had no authority to make this move in the first place. Just seems wayyy over the top unless as has been suggested there is much much more to this.

And again...I have been very supportive of how he has handled things, it has been refreshing to say the least, but this just smacks of every other elected official letting power get to their head. I might be way off on this assessment but right now it sure looks that way without more information.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Are you responsible for your brothers' (Muta) comments?

Why are you bringing me into this? You've mentioned me twice now (on the same page no less), and I haven't even engaged in any discussion with you. Here's a suggestion - perhaps address the posters directly addressing you? What is your obsession with brinigng me in?

[AR_Six]

I would point out that this is a legitimate discussion about a pretty important issue that currently has a news item to spur public awareness of it and so maybe this thread should be dedicated to that rather than sniping at FL for her posting style? Not that I particularly disagree with the criticisms but it's derailing a thread I happen to find interesting so I personally hope you guys wrap it up soon.

Back on topic,

Originally Posted by bizaro86

The fact that lots 50 ft from a CTrain station are zoned R1 makes a mockery of the planning process.

Bunk once said (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?p=3988883) the community association is the group needing to request an ARP/upzoning, but none of them ever will. That benefits the city as a whole, but the NIMBYs running the associations will never request it.

If we're going to restrict suburbs then we need to replace the growth in the developed area, or housing prices will increase unsustainably. (That benefits me as a real estate investor, but disproportionately hurts poor people, and reduces Calgary's competitiveness)

This seems to me an excellent point. The Mayor's vision for this city, as I've said, I am behind - but this is kind of a crucial element to actually making it work, isn't it? I.e. this is an equally important problem to fix.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Because I'm not responsible for them.

Am I also responsible for Chris's blog?

Are you responsible for your brothers' (Muta) comments?

Also, can you explain to me where the "social media buzz" was on this as you claim in your original post? I'm curious to see where these discussions were. I can see the papers making a stink about this, but I have yet to find serious social media buzz about this Nenshi/CHBA issue on Twitter or Facebook.

Also, I just noted your husband's blog is "Cory Morgan Ranting and Raving". Definitely the type of place I want to refer to for unbiased opinion on contemporary topics.

[woob]

As much as I enjoy a good FL hunt when she pulls her same old dog and pony show, can we keep this thread on topic?

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You still don't get it, do you?

The whole babe in the woods routine is growing a little stale and I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it.

No, you guys only see what you want.

I just ran a search. I've posted links to Cory's blog 34 times.

He has well over 1000 blog posts. I have over 3000 posts here.

As you can see it is a very small fraction. The fact is you guys only come out of the woods and attack when it does happen.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by First Lady

I just ran a search. I've posted links to Cory's blog 34 times.
.

That's a lot compared to everyone else who has posted Cory's blog zero times. That's what you're missing.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by First Lady

No, you guys only see what you want.

I just ran a search. I've posted links to Cory's blog 34 times.

He has well over 1000 blog posts. I have over 3000 posts here.

As you can see it is a very small fraction. The fact is you guys only come out of the woods and attack when it does happen.

I think it has more to do with the fact that you link to his blog but then abstain from discussing his blog when people question what you link.

If you don't agree with his thoughts, don't link to them.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Great stuff Bunk...but may I ask (and if you know) why a written apology posted in several different places has to occur before the builders are allowed back at the table? (If indeed this is really the case) And how that kind of reponse is any different to the relationship between the two sides as to what was said by someone to start it all off?

I'll say this - The City, led by the Mayor has taken an unprecedented step of trying to transform how its planning system works, largely because of the feedback we get from the homebuilding industry, and we've invited many industry partners to advise on how to do that. Together, we’ve started the cut red tape program and begun a process formally called Transforming Planning that aims to completely re-invent the system.

I should point out that the process and regulations are often the biggest barrier to changing/improving how new communities are designed and built It's often developers trying to push the envelope, but default back to the "standard" when they run into brick walls in approval. That is why we're trying to change it. Developers often get a lot of blame from people, but I think that can be misdirected. It's as much the "system" as anything else.

The CHBA is one of many industry organizations that we invited to help chart a path forward, and as I mentioned, we have been extremely pleased with the CHBA’s role on those committees. However, the CHBA has chosen to misrepresent the process to their members and the general public.

Specifically: by doing this, the CHBA has shown disrespect to the other partners (and many City of Calgary employees) at the table that have come together to make a better system. This is why the Mayor, with support of PFC Council Committee disinvited the CHBA from the special committees we had created until they choose to rebuild this relationship by apologizing to the committee partners and City staff (not to the Mayor or Mayor's Office) who are all working together. Is it a strong reaction? Yes - but this is really, really important.

Hopefully, we can come back together to continue the good work we've started in a respectful manner (even if we disagree!). That is the ideal situation.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

I think it has more to do with the fact that you link to his blog but then abstain from discussing his blog when people question what you link.

If you don't agree with his thoughts, don't link to them.

But I do agree with some of them and have specifically stated I agree Nenshi is throwing a childish temper tantrum.

People just don't like that part and are derailing the thread - - as they do everytime they don't like the topic.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I'll say this - The City, led by the Mayor has taken an unprecedented step of trying to transform how its planning system works, largely because of the feedback we get from the homebuilding industry, and we've invited many industry partners to advise on how to do that. Together, we’ve started the cut red tape program and begun a process formally called Transforming Planning that aims to completely re-invent the system.

I should point out that the process and regulations are often the biggest barrier to changing/improving how new communities are designed and built It's often developers trying to push the envelope, but default back to the "standard" when they run into brick walls in approval. That is why we're trying to change it. Developers often get a lot of blame from people, but I think that can be misdirected.

The CHBA is one of many industry organizations that we invited to help chart a path forward, and as I mentioned, we have been extremely pleased with the CHBA’s role on those committees. However, the CHBA has chosen to misrepresent the process to their members and the general public.

Specifically: by doing this, the CHBA has shown disrespect to the other partners (and many City of Calgary employees) at the table that have come together to make a better system. This is why the Mayor, with support of PFC Council Committee disinvited the CHBA from the special committees we had created until they choose to rebuild this relationship by apologizing to the committee partners and City staff (not to the Mayor or Mayor's Office) who are all working together. Is it a strong reaction? Yes - but this is really, really important.

Hopefully, we can come back together to continue the good work we've started in a respectful manner (even if we disagree!). That is the ideal situation.

Good points Bunk but doesn't the importance of having the CHBA at the table to help with changes overshadow any "disrespect" that may have been felt by partners and City of Calgary employees?

It does come across as incredibly childish for the Mayor and City to unilaterally punish one group for presenting a viewpoint they don't agree with, and IMHO undermines the entire process just as much as whatever the CHBA said.

[Tinordi]

Great response. In the end it's about making people accountable for what they say and do. Nenshi as an elected official is utterly accountable in the fact that he needs the support of the people every four years.

The CHBA is not, they can enjoy shaping new policy frameworks, and then apparently rip on them on their partners on the side. You can't have it both ways. It's high time many of these municipal lobbies felt as though they had skin in the game and to recognize that there are tradeoffs.