Phaneuf +/- after first 5 games

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by timbit

What happens if the D is projected to be better than Doughty and Mackinnon by your scouts. Do you pass on because of historical data?....keeping in mind that top end D almost always have a longer development team curve than forwards, but also longer careers

This is another reason to take forwrds, actually.

Take the guy who is going to contribute quickly (and with a higher likelihood of success) and let other teams spend their time and resources developing defensemen

[sun]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is another reason to take forwrds, actually.

Take the guy who is going to cointribute quickly (and with a higher likelihood of success) and let other teams spend their time and resources developing defensemen

Just to let them bail and play for daddy's old team.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Calgary's experience is irrelevant. Also, we have been talking about lottery picks, not first rounders (different conversation).

Here are the players taken top 3 since 2000 by position (C F D G):

Spezza.....Heatley......Bouwmeester...DiPietro
Svitov......Gaborik.....Barker.............Lehtone n
Staal E.....Kovalchuk..Johnson J........Fleury
Horton.....Nash.........Johnson E
Malkin.....Ovechkin....Doughty
Crosby.....Ryan.........Bogosian
Staal J.....Kane.........Hedman
Toews.....JVR...........Gudbranson
Turris......Hall...........Murray
Stamkos..Landeskog
Tavares...Yakupov
Duchene
Seguin
RNH
Huberdeau
Galchenyuk

Out of 16 Cs, one failure (Russian!) and one or two guys that aren't first liners.

Out of the forwards, no misses.

Out of the D, one star and 3 or 4 top pair guys, but other than Doughty, any of them could be easily replaced with a UFA.

Goalies - don't even think about it!

IMO, there is no contest. If you have a lottery pick, you go with the forward.

Good post. I'd go even further and say that wingers aren't quite as important as centres and I'd be primarily looking at a centre if I were drafting top 3.

Your list highlights that for me. All my opinions of course
Top 10 players from your list that I'd want to build around in no particular order
Doughty (D), Malkin (C), Crosby (C), E Staal (C), Toews (C), Stamkos (C), Tavares (C), Seguin (C), RNH (C), Spezza (C)

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Despite what my post above says I think Jones may be a rare talent. Not sure I've seen a performance as impressive as his at his age at the WJC. He looked so poised with the puck, good on the powerplay, so mobile. His size, skating, puckhandling, hockey sense, etc all seem fantastic.

I don't think you can go wrong with Mackinnon or Jones. Great year to end up with a top 2-5 pick.

[Phanuthier]

I agree with FDW above, both McKinnon and Seth Jones looked great. I would favor Seth Jones at the moment, but both look like great prospects.

/ kind of wish we'd tank this year

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by timbit

top end D almost always have a longer development team curve than forwards, but also longer careers

Of course you're right, but here we are in a thread about a Norris-contending top end D who may very well have peaked at 23.

People are funny.

[Hatter]

If we ended up really bad this year I think I'd take Jones too. Big, mobile d-men with excellent ability at both ends of the ice don't come along every day.

He was excellent at the WJC, and seems to fit in well in Portland as well. Drool...

[boggledepot]

Originally Posted by Hatter

If we ended up really bad this year I think I'd take Jones too. Big, mobile d-men with excellent ability at both ends of the ice don't come along every day.

He was excellent at the WJC, and seems to fit in well in Portland as well. Drool...

I think part of the reason why I am skeptical about media hype and published scouting reports is it seems every year that description is said about a highly touted defenseman. I'm not saying the report is inaccurate, or Victor Hedman and Eric Johnson are bad players, just I've heard it before.

[Komskies]

I think it should be a no-brainer to take a Center over a D if the choice is available. It is way more difficult to obtain a #1 Center.

[jlh2640]

Well I miss the old pre ego Dion, however was amazed to see these stat lines lol.
GP G A P
D Dion Phaneuf TOR 10 0 1 1 -6

Don't think he is adapting to well to Carlyle.

[Zlars318]

One of the most lopsided two-way defenceman in the league. Who taught this guy how to skate?!

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by boggledepot

I think part of the reason why I am skeptical about media hype and published scouting reports is it seems every year that description is said about a highly touted defenseman. I'm not saying the report is inaccurate, or Victor Hedman and Eric Johnson are bad players, just I've heard it before.

Phaneuf is actually "highly-touted" in media reports. . . . . . which probably contributes to his peers in many public player polls consistently naming him the "most-overrated" player in the NHL.

In fact, its pretty interesting that player votes have him in the top three in "hardest shot," "hardest hitter" and "most-overrated."

Basically, other players think if you can avoid getting hit in the head by his shot and he misses trying to smoke you at the blueline, then he's pretty easy to play against.

Cowperson

[Buff]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Well I miss the old pre ego Dion, however was amazed to see these stat lines lol.
GP G A P
D Dion Phaneuf TOR 10 0 1 1 -6

Don't think he is adapting to well to Carlyle.

You knew him when he was 9 years old?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hatter

If we ended up really bad this year I think I'd take Jones too. Big, mobile d-men with excellent ability at both ends of the ice don't come along every day.

He was excellent at the WJC, and seems to fit in well in Portland as well. Drool...

I like Jones, if I had a top pick as the GM of the Flames I'm not sure he would be who we target. We seem to have some good defense prospects in the pipeline, and when you look at the Gio's and the Brodies of the world we seem to do a decent job of developing blue line prospects.

The Flames are really short on center prospects, I know the old axiom is to draft the most talented guy, but that seems to lead to what the Oilers are doing which is collecting hockey cards.

At some point you have to take the best player available at a certain position in order for your rebuild to work.

[CaptainCrunch]

Wait until his brother gets to the NHL, he'll make Dion look like Bobby Orr.

Oh wait his brother's probably not going to get to the NHL?

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by Buff

You knew him when he was 9 years old?

That's not entirely fair (and yes, I realize it was a joke). I met the kid after he was drafted by us, in the lockout year, at the Dome at a Hitmen game. He was really nice and polite.

The ego kicked in a bit later. I wouldn't be surprised if it had almost everything to do with his rookie NHL season, being up against two guys named Crosby and Ovechkin for the Calder.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Phaneuf is actually "highly-touted" in media reports. . . . . . which probably contributes to his peers in many public player polls consistently naming him the "most-overrated" player in the NHL.

In fact, its pretty interesting that player votes have him in the top three in "hardest shot," "hardest hitter" and "most-overrated."

Basically, other players think if you can avoid getting hit in the head by his shot and he misses trying to smoke you at the blueline, then he's pretty easy to play against.

Cowperson

All the right tools, but missing the tool box. His inability to learn to play pro-hockey is quite staggering.

[Komskies]

Originally Posted by blankall

All the right tools, but missing the tool box. His inability to learn to play pro-hockey is quite staggering.

I would say his inability to skate properly is also staggering. He's very... I can't even describe it. Very upright, high center of gravity, it's almost like he's always losing his balance and fighting hard just to stay on his feet.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that hip injury completely messed him up, he was never this bad on blades when he was here was he?

[taco.vidal]

After 28 games, Dion is -11 which puts him at 252 of 261 defensemen on NHL.com.