[PGT] Flames lose 6-3 vs Avs

[CliffFletcher]

Our future is in Murray Edwards' hands. And he strikes me as a very, very stubborn man.

[moon]

Originally Posted by vektor

Ramo is the only potential #1 goalie we have besides Kipper
Backlund is our only NHL ready prospect right now (I guess you need to include Brodie too)

Fair enough.

Baerstchi seems like a guy you build around and those two (Ramo especially) seem like extra parts that could be replaced and easily moved if someone is giving something of value for them. Just seemed like odd guys to pair with a much more valuable piece in Baertschi, especially leaving out a guy like Brodie (who you later included) who seems much better and valuable than either guy.

[MissTeeks]

I think this place was less bleak during the lockout. I miss my CBA News thread!

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by vektor

Say we win 5 in the first 20 games, we should start selling everything not named Backlund, Baertschi or Ramo. If we are that bad I hope the owners don't punish us by not even trying to turn things around. Worst case scenario, we lose Kiprusoff and Iginla for nothing, buyout Camalleri and finish dead last this season and next. The way things have been going the worst case scenario isn't that improbable, even the freakin Islanders are making noise this year, the Islanders.

Things are dire my fellow fans, that faint hope of a surge to the playoffs is already becoming dimmer. As our veterans age and depreciate our defense and our goalie struggle, the next year will decide the future of the Flames for a long time, our team is in Feaster's hands.

I don't think you gut the team completely. Any RFA minus Butler and any player with a contract past two seasons should stay (barring a deal you can't pass up). Plus any young player that may be part of your future.

If you hold onto Hudler, Tanguay, Glencross, Backlund, Jones, Wideman, Giordano, and Brodie. Add Baertschi, Gaudreau, Ramo, Bouma, and Jankowski over the next couple of seasons.

Plus see what you have in Aliu, Breen, Byron, Horak, Reinhart, Street, Granlund, Arnold, DeBlouw, Culkin, Ferland, Gordon, Kulak, Sieloff, and Wotherspoon.

Now add whatever prospects you acquire from trade and in the draft for trading anyone else you can and you should have a solid start in turning this around.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I don't think you gut the team completely. Any RFA minus Butler and any player with a contract past two seasons should stay. Plus any young player that may be part of your future.

If you hold onto Hudler, Tanguay, Glencross, Backlund, Jones, Wideman, Giordano, and Brodie. Add Baertschi, Gaudreau, Ramo, Bouma, and Jankowski over the next couple of seasons.

Plus see what you have in Aliu, Breen, Byron, Horak, Reinhart, Street, Granlund, Arnold, DeBlouw, Culkin, Ferland, Gordon, Kulak, Sieloff, and Wotherspoon.

Now add whatever prospects you acquire from trade and in the draft for trading anyone else you can and you should have a solid start in turning this around.

All good points, the idea of holding on to the bolded guys has merit, problem is if we don't trade them and they don't want to stay. That's when we become the laughing stock of the league. I agree about the RFA's and hopefully our current prospects can develop into much more than we've gotten over the past decade. Think about how nobody wanted to play for the Islanders for so long, that situation where players are asking to leave isn't too far from where we currently stand.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by vektor

All good points, the idea of holding on to the bolded guys has merit, problem is if we don't trade them and they don't want to stay. That's when we become the laughing stock of the league. I agree about the RFA's and hopefully our current prospects can develop into much more than we've gotten over the past decade. Think about how nobody wanted to play for the Islanders for so long, that situation where players are asking to leave isn't too far from where we currently stand. It's 3 or 4 missed opportunities and a few bad trades.

If a player doesn't want to stay you trade them. If you get a really good offer you trade them. Absolutely.

But the Flames have some good young pieces locked in long term on decent contracts. You can't have an entire team full of prospects. And you can't trade 20 players for prospects and picks.

Trade away the guys you are otherwise going to lose for nothing. Or the guys that aren't part of your team going forward.

[Flash Walken]

Can you imagine the return on trading iginla, bouwmeester, kipper and cammelleri in one, shortened season?

[vektor]

Originally Posted by kehatch

If a player doesn't want to stay you trade them. If you get a really good offer you trade them. Absolutely.

But the Flames have some good young pieces locked in long term on decent contracts. You can't have an entire team full of prospects. And you can't trade 20 players for prospects and picks.

Trade away the guys you are otherwise going to lose for nothing. Or the guys that aren't part of your team going forward.

for sure, I agree with that. Just very worried about our future. Our team doesn't have the most illustrious history and this season has started out very worrisome.

I don't want to be a fan of the worst team and what is a joke to the rest of the league, probably still will be but man if things go the way of the NYI over the past decade that will be tough. I hope they just go on a 10 game winning streak and shut me up, that's what I really hope.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by vektor

for sure, I agree with that. Just very worried about our future. Our team doesn't have the most illustrious history and this season has started out very worrisome.

I don't want to be a fan of the worst team and what is a joke to the rest of the league, probably still will be but man if things go the way of the NYI over the past decade that will be tough. I hope they just go on a 10 game winning streak and shut me up, that's what I really hope.

Remember when Calgary hadn't sniffed the playoffs in 7 years?

This is year 4.

Don't think things can get much worse than having the national broadcaster predict publicly they expect your favourite team to be one of the absolute worst in the whole league.

[JurassicTunga12]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can you imagine the return on trading iginla, bouwmeester, kipper and cammelleri in one, shortened season?

We could have like 5 first round picks

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can you imagine the return on trading iginla, bouwmeester, kipper and cammelleri in one, shortened season with a dream-quality draft pool?

fyp

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Can you imagine the return on trading iginla, bouwmeester, kipper and cammelleri in one, shortened season?

I believe the return would be great. If flames ownership still wanted to maintain their competitive mandate to make playoffs, all they would have to do is not include Kipper on the list above. Iginla, Bouwneester and Cammi would get a good enough return to do a fast re-tool.

If they could trade Iginla for a blue chip prosect straight up ( Brayden Schenn) , they could trade the other 2 for 1sts and prospects. They don't need to trade all of them for picks and mid prospects.

[$ven27]

If we were to completely blow it up this season. the return should be a 1st+ for Kipper, Iggy, Bouwmeester and maybe Cammy. Having 5 firsts in this draft could turn a long, painful rebuild into a quick one.

[hungryforfood]

[QUOTE=Machiavelli;4046619]Typical loss to an inferior team.

There are few, if any, inferior teams. Colorado will finish higher in the standings this year...

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by $ven27

If we were to completely blow it up this season. the return should be a 1st+ for Kipper, Iggy, Bouwmeester and maybe Cammy. Having 5 firsts in this draft could turn a long, painful rebuild into a quick one.

Do you really think that with ownerships mandate of playoffs that they would trade all players for 1st's? That would take years to wait for all of them, not to mention that they would all become RFA within a season or 2 from each other.

They would need to concentrate at least one player on a blue chip return. Another player on young players that can play next year. The other 2 remaining players could be traded for 1st's. There is no chance in hell this ownership will want to go into the next drat with 5 picks and wait 2-3 years until some of these guys make an impact.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by $ven27

If we were to completely blow it up this season. the return should be a 1st+ for Kipper, Iggy, Bouwmeester and maybe Cammy. Having 5 firsts in this draft could turn a long, painful rebuild into a quick one.

That is a bit optimistic. Even if Feaster would bite on that chances are we aren't getting a first round pick for guys like Cammalleri.

That said, even if we can get a first round pick and a keynote prospect along with a couple of lower picks and decent prospects I would be happy.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by $ven27

If we were to completely blow it up this season. the return should be a 1st+ for Kipper, Iggy, Bouwmeester and maybe Cammy. Having 5 firsts in this draft could turn a long, painful rebuild into a quick one.

signing them after they are able to contribute meaningfully is a different story.

This goes completely against acheiving long term goals

[nik-]

If it came to difficult decision of which of the 5 highly performing draft picks to re-sign, I think we could deal with it.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I believe the return would be great. If flames ownership still wanted to maintain their competitive mandate to make playoffs, all they would have to do is not include Kipper on the list above. Iginla, Bouwneester and Cammi would get a good enough return to do a fast re-tool.

If they could trade Iginla for a blue chip prosect straight up ( Brayden Schenn) , they could trade the other 2 for 1sts and prospects. They don't need to trade all of them for picks and mid prospects.

Cammalleri for a 1st and a prospect? This is a guy most Flames fans want in the press box who comes with a $7 million price tag. He only returned Rene Bourque a year ago, I don't see what he's done since then to drastically inflate his value.

Teams aren't going to be throwing around 1st round picks or grade A prospects like they're candy. In the last 4 trade deadlines there have been only three 1st round picks moved and virtually no good prospects have been traded for rentals. Iginla will return some good assets but those other guys aren't going to bring a ton back in return. Collectively they could bring in a decent quantity of assets, but any thoughts of 4+ 1st round picks is just dreaming.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by RobDoupe

Our future is in Murray Edwards' hands. And he strikes me as a very, very stubborn man.

Yeah I don't see it happening either. We were having the EXACT same discussions last year with the same % of CP population wanting rebuild vs win-now, and what direction did the Flames go? They went out to get Cammalleri, kept all their UFA (Joke, Hannan, etc)... KK with his rock solid plan, Feaster with some comments about not being acceptable to miss the playoffs... I do not think ownership has it in them to good on a full scale rebuild.