Toronto Raptors 2012/2013 season - Page 16 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

St. Pats · 01-25-2013, 01:23 PM

I'm starting to like Ross. I have the feeling he could do a whole lot more if he had the green light to do so. Along with some more confidence. He has plain just blown by guys and dunked on other guys heads. Plus I like his defense. He was finally on in the clutch moments last night and I think he should be out there all the time at the end of games. He is a threat on O and good on D.

killer_carlson · 01-26-2013, 10:50 AM

Didn't Ross give up a 4 point play in the last minute vs Orlando?

I don't have a problem with him playing down the stretch either actually, but it was either him or Derozan who tossed out a big brain fart with a late rotation, reckless shotblock attempt, and a foul on a made three pointer.

octothorp · 01-26-2013, 11:45 AM

Yup, it was Ross. I think he's a solid defender, but no question, that play was a major mistake. I'm fine with it as a rookie mistake. If he makes a habit of it, then it's a problem, but being in those sorts of clutch situations should make him a better player.

killer_carlson · 01-26-2013, 12:00 PM

yeah, you're right. Plus the fact that he makes a huge brain fart and the coach has the confidence to keep him out there and work through it. Good for development of a young player.

Hockey_Ninja · 01-26-2013, 07:32 PM

Kyrie Irving is some kinda player. That hurt.

Machiavelli · 01-26-2013, 07:38 PM

How many heartbreakers can this team suffer? Geebus.

flames_fan_down_under · 01-26-2013, 07:43 PM

Man what a tough loss. Another huge 4th quarter lead evaporates quickly. Calderon really was needed on the floor earlier in my opinion, Lowry wasn't great tonight. I still like the make up of this Raptors team, they really play hard, i just feel they could use maybe one guy who gets a few more points, someone like Kyrie Irving.

killer_carlson · 01-26-2013, 08:09 PM

Team Least Clutch proves that the Orlando win was an anomoly.

St. Pats · 01-28-2013, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

How many heartbreakers can this team suffer? Geebus.

Quite a few no doubt. They really have nobody who can take over in the clutch. Just a bunch of hot and cold chuckers. They can't handle pressure either and consistently give up leads. They get destroyed inside when the game gets more physical in the late going.

They are a scrappy bunch but not a very talented group.

Fun to watch them try but the end result is usually the same.

octothorp · 01-28-2013, 09:27 AM

It'll be interesting to see how the PG situation is resolved. My preference would definitely be to keep Lowry over Calderon, but a total rebuild that involves trading both is also a decent idea if it could bring in excellent returns. Celtics are the first obvious trade partner, except that there's nothing on the Celtics roster that I'd want (given that they'd never trade Rondo).

bluejays · 01-28-2013, 08:40 PM

Well, another somewhat clutch time loss. They were pretty good until the last 8 minutes or so, then were pushed aside in a beatdown.

More interesting are the rumors floating on ESPN stating a Rudy Gay and Darrell Arthur for Jose Calderon and Ed Davis is in the works.

On one hand, I'm really happy with Davis' progress this season, but at the same time, not many players take this long to develop into stars, so is he just a solid player or future star? I lean more to a solid player. Gay is interesting to me because he's the guy who can slash and create his own shot, which is what they need, but at the same time, my concern is he'll come to Toronto, and just chuck shots because he's the only go-to-guy. If this deal does go through, I'd hope Colangelo could deal Bargnani and someone else for another shot creater or authentic big man to have a secondary scoring option. I also wouldn't mind Lowry dealt and maybe do with Alan Anderson running the point the rest of the season and signing another PG in the off-season. Interesting few weeks coming up.

killer_carlson · 01-28-2013, 08:59 PM

I bet Anderson will be dealt as he is agreat 6th man at a low price point. He will be moved.

The Gay trade i dont mind, but what the hell do we do with Gay and Derozan fighting for the ball?

Having said all that, i still think Calderon ends up inDallas or LA

Ezio · 01-29-2013, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

Well, another somewhat clutch time loss. They were pretty good until the last 8 minutes or so, then were pushed aside in a beatdown.

More interesting are the rumors floating on ESPN stating a Rudy Gay and Darrell Arthur for Jose Calderon and Ed Davis is in the works.

On one hand, I'm really happy with Davis' progress this season, but at the same time, not many players take this long to develop into stars, so is he just a solid player or future star? I lean more to a solid player. Gay is interesting to me because he's the guy who can slash and create his own shot, which is what they need, but at the same time, my concern is he'll come to Toronto, and just chuck shots because he's the only go-to-guy. If this deal does go through, I'd hope Colangelo could deal Bargnani and someone else for another shot creater or authentic big man to have a secondary scoring option. I also wouldn't mind Lowry dealt and maybe do with Alan Anderson running the point the rest of the season and signing another PG in the off-season. Interesting few weeks coming up.

I love it.

And sadly, I agree with trading Lowry. I just haven't felt he's made a big enough impact with the team and he'll garner a lot on the trade market. Maybe re-acquire our first?

octothorp · 01-29-2013, 10:35 AM

I don't think Lowry has been given a reasonable chance to succeed yet. If they can get a good return for him, then I'd be okay with trading him, but I still think he has a higher upside than Calderon. Just in terms of style of play, Calderon puts up great stats when he's creating for teammates who are relatively ineffective at creating for themselves, but if the plan is to get more players who can create their own shot (ie. Gay), then Lowry's a more natural fit. My ideal starting lineup would be something like Lowry, Ross, Gay, *post-up PF with good passing*, Valanciunas. And Smith would be my ideal fit for that PF, in terms of play (not necessarily in attitude/personality).

As much as I like Davis (and he's really been my favorite player in recent weeks), the PF position is the one that's easiest to fill with a free agent. It's an excellent season to be shopping for a big-man. (Smith, Millsap, Hickson, West are all free agents, not to mention centers Howard, Bynum, Jefferson). So it makes some sense to make Davis expendable if there's a good return. And Gay + Arthur definitely qualifies as a good return.

St. Pats · 01-29-2013, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octothorp

I don't think Lowry has been given a reasonable chance to succeed yet. If they can get a good return for him, then I'd be okay with trading him, but I still think he has a higher upside than Calderon. Just in terms of style of play, Calderon puts up great stats when he's creating for teammates who are relatively ineffective at creating for themselves, but if the plan is to get more players who can create their own shot (ie. Gay), then Lowry's a more natural fit. My ideal starting lineup would be something like Lowry, Ross, Gay, *post-up PF with good passing*, Valanciunas. And Smith would be my ideal fit for that PF, in terms of play (not necessarily in attitude/personality).

As much as I like Davis (and he's really been my favorite player in recent weeks), the PF position is the one that's easiest to fill with a free agent. It's an excellent season to be shopping for a big-man. (Smith, Millsap, Hickson, West are all free agents, not to mention centers Howard, Bynum, Jefferson). So it makes some sense to make Davis expendable if there's a good return. And Gay + Arthur definitely qualifies as a good return.

I agree completely about Davis. Really enjoy watching him but I see very limited upside. A solid pro but he gets pushed around way too easily and not aggressive enough for me. I suspect he improves that facet of his game but then you have to pay him. Think the price won't be worth it and they have too many of those types of contracts.

That's what worries me about Gay but he is a big step up in talent. He is like 3rd option on Memphis and on the Raps will be numero uno. His contract isn't that long so that tempers it a bit.

If they give up Ross in that deal I'll go and burn BC's house down with him in it.

octothorp · 01-29-2013, 10:53 AM

Yeah, I'm with you on Ross. I think an athletic wing who can defend at a high level and shoot lights-out is an extremely rare and versatile player. Versatile, because he can mesh with just about any type of lineup, and make a big impact on the game without a lot of touches in the offense.

The Big Chill · 01-29-2013, 10:57 AM

I'd be disappointed if we gave up Davis for Gay. Davis has been one of the few positives out of this year and shows a lot of upside. Clearly I have a higher opinion of him then you guys do. It is not easy to find a guy with his hustle and natural rebounding and shot blocking ability. He also has a much improving offensive game that includes a knack for flashing to the basket at the right time to get passes for easy layups.

A front court of JV, Davis, and Amir looks like it could actually be really good in a year or two.

Trading Davis also means we are back to having Bargnani as our starting PF, and I simply can't stand that idea anymore.

I'd be trying to offload Bargnani and Calderon for Gay, whether is was directly to Memphis or through a multi-team trade including possibly the Lakers or Boston.

St. Pats · 01-29-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I'd be disappointed if we gave up Davis for Gay. Davis has been one of the few positives out of this year and shows a lot of upside. Clearly I have a higher opinion of him then you guys do. It is not easy to find a guy with his hustle and natural rebounding and shot blocking ability. He also has a much improving offensive game that includes a knack for flashing to the basket at the right time to get passes for easy layups.

A front court of JV, Davis, and Amir looks like it could actually be really good in a year or two.

Trading Davis also means we are back to having Bargnani as our starting PF, and I simply can't stand that idea anymore.

I'd be trying to offload Bargnani and Calderon for Gay, whether is was directly to Memphis or through a multi-team trade including possibly the Lakers or Boston.

The problem there is threefold. JV, Davis and Amir are all undersized. Yes they could put on more weight but really only JV has the frame to do so. The other two problems are Bargnani is injured and he SUCKS. So clubs aren't going to trade for an injured player or one who can't sink a basket without taking 5 shots to do so and who can't snag a rebound or play any help defense whatsover. Personally I just amnesty him at the end of the season unless he has a complete attitude change.

The Big Chill · 01-29-2013, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Pats

The problem there is threefold. JV, Davis and Amir are all undersized. Yes they could put on more weight but really only JV has the frame to do so. The other two problems are Bargnani is injured and he SUCKS. So clubs aren't going to trade for an injured player or one who can't sink a basket without taking 5 shots to do so and who can't snag a rebound or play any help defense whatsover. Personally I just amnesty him at the end of the season unless he has a complete attitude change.

A front court of JV, Davis and Amir is only undersized against a few teams in the NBA. That is why we would have a guy like Gray at the end of the bench, just for those few games.

Bargnani has some trade value to a team who can provide the right fit. Memphis could be that team because they already have some size up front. Maybe they would go for Bargnani and DeRozan for Gay and a contract they want rid of.

Senator Clay Davis · 01-29-2013, 01:25 PM

Only Davis and Ross should be off limits to any potential trading partners. Or just blow the whole team up and make your run at Andrew Wiggins. But yeah I really like Ed Davis and Terrance Ross has shown me that with some time he has the potential to be a very good player. At this point Bargnani and Pau Gasol have the two lowest trade values in the league, so trading Bargs may be pretty difficult without accepting some salary back, or having to give up more just to dump him.