Yes Obama has been fairly laxed on gun control. But I wouldnt go so far as to say he is a gun supporter. Now that he's in his second term I can really see him going to battle on this issue and no longer has to pander to the right. However If Romney had gotten into power I really wonder if he would have taken the opposite angle.
Oh I wouldn't say he's a gun supporter by any stretch, just regurgitating what I heard on the news. Hard to say what would have happened however this appears to be a tipping point for the US and its collective conscience. I really don't see how anyone can justify having a gun other than for hunting.
Will there be the poltical will or courage to have the debate in the US?
It would be political suicide, but the discussion needs to happen.
Like PIM mentioned, Obama is in his last term. Imagine the legacy he could leave if he was able to introduce some meaningful measure of gun control. He might be hated by few, but I believe the majority would support him.
It's people who decide to kill people. "Teach your children well". I know that sounds corny, but i think it is at the heart of the matter.
(No i dont think machine guns should be sold at the local Quickee Mart)
no offense dude, but that rationalization of "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is the NRA's meme... and is as ridiculous as blaming the girl for getting raped because of what she was wearing.
Look at the facts - deaths by guns in the US vs any other western democracy - and then come back and tell me that's the case.
31 school shootings in america since columbine. The rest of the world combined? 14.
So its either access to guns, or Americans are turning into a country of barbarians, psychopaths and murderers
no offense dude, but that rationalization of "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is the NRA's meme... and is as ridiculous as blaming the girl for getting raped because of what she was wearing.
Look at the facts - deaths by guns in the US vs any other western democracy - and then come back and tell me that's the case.
31 school shootings in america since columbine. The rest of the world combined? 14.
So its either access to guns, or Americans are turning into a country of barbarians, psychopaths and murderers
I believe if you just look at the number of guns and access to them, numbers alone don't do much to explain the situation. Finland has tons of guns and they're not really that hard to get either, and it took a long while before we got our first school shooting.
I support strict gun control both here and in the US, but if you're looking for reasons for these shootings, I would look elsewhere thanjustthe number of guns and access to them.
I once saw an argument made that the US has almost the same relationship to guns as the japanese have to swords. Which I thought was interesting. Maybe there's something to that.
Also, the US media is possibly the largest anywhere, and very violence-oriented. Mass murderers seem to get a ton of personal attention. Maybe that's a problem. But how different is this from some other countries? I have no idea.
What I do know, that just going for gun control will propably not do much. (Although, it might change people's attitudes towards guns...) Personally, I'd call it a good place to start anyway. Although there's the huge problem that there are already so many guns around...
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Sorry, just to be clear, are you inferring that when a policeman uses his gun the media often doesn't report it?
Not exactly. We certainly hear local reports of such things, but every time an officer in Dallas discharges his weapon in pursuit of an assailant, or in Dayton, this does not ever generate international media attention. What I am saying is that tragedies in which innocent bystanders are killed tend to elicit such strong emotional responses that I believe also interferes with the accuracy of our perceptions of such instances, relative to "typical" police shootings.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I believe if you just look at the number of guns and access to them, numbers alone don't do much to explain the situation. Finland has tons of guns and they're not really that hard to get either, and it took a long while before we got our first school shooting.
I support strict gun control both here and in the US, but if you're looking for reasons for these shootings, I would look elsewhere thanjustthe number of guns and access to them.
I once saw an argument made that the US has almost the same relationship to guns as the japanese have to swords. Which I thought was interesting. Maybe there's something to that.
Also, the US media is possibly the largest anywhere, and very violence-oriented. Mass murderers seem to get a ton of personal attention. Maybe that's a problem. But how different is this from some other countries? I have no idea.
What I do know, that just going for gun control will propably not do much. (Although, it might change people's attitudes towards guns...) Personally, I'd call it a good place to start anyway. Although there's the huge problem that there are already so many guns around...
seems like the US should try to temper guns and the access to them.
things like extended clips, fragmentation bullets, assault rifles... all those things seem like you would want to restrict them to some degree.
The genie is out of the bottle, sort to speak, but the notion that people need guns to protect themselves from, say, gang violence is silly.
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Here's one that really boggles my mind. Well a) Why did the shooter wear body armour if the end game was suicide? Seems kinda pointless. But that leads me to b) Why exactly can you buy body armour? The only reason you need it is obviously because you believe you're going to be involved in a shootout. Can someone tell me what situation a shootout isn't going to be in an extremely negative connotation (like say a school shooting)? I think either ban body armour, or take ID of anyone who buys it and forward it to local law enforcement to monitor that person. Who needs body armour just for protection? Are people that insanely paranoid?
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...There was discussion about reporting of gun use, deaths etc. TC brought up something along the lines that there would likely be more stats but the media doesn't report very often when police use their guns. Seems to me that everything the police do ends up in the news so I didn't really understand/agree with his point.
Just for clarification, I was not saying that the media is less likely to report police shootings, but what I do firmly believe is that we, their audience are much more likely not to remember every incident reported in which perpetrators are shot by police officers. On the other hand, none of us is likely EVER to forget yesterday, or the Columbine massacre, or Virginia Tech, or the Colorado shooting from the summer. These things definitely mess with our collective perception.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Here's one that really boggles my mind. Well a) Why did the shooter wear body armour if the end game was suicide? Seems kinda pointless. But that leads me to b) Why exactly can you buy body armour? The only reason you need it is obviously because you believe you're going to be involved in a shootout. Can someone tell me what situation a shootout isn't going to be in an extremely negative connotation (like say a school shooting)? I think either ban body armour, or take ID of anyone who buys it and forward it to local law enforcement to monitor that person. Who needs body armour just for protection? Are people that insanely paranoid?
body armor is a necessity during duck hunting season! didn't yo get the NRA memo?!
body armor is a necessity during duck hunting season! didn't yo get the NRA memo?!
If you're hunting with Dick Cheneny it is
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nut jobs like that guy in the clip make me thankful that there is at least some degree of sanity in Canada.
so, what are the odds of another mass shooting in the US before New Years?
end of the Mayan calendar coming up soon...sure there is some guy off his meds with access to some semi autos...
I have a feeling we will see another one in a week because of the copy cat crap with some other ###### wanting attention.
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I have a feeling we will see another one in a week because of the copy cat crap with some other ###### wanting attention.
No, there may be a copycat crime because there is some ###### wanting attention that has easy access to weapons that are only designed to kill people in close quarter situations. There is no practical use for a handgun other than shooting targets and shooting people. Personally I think that someone not being able to put holes into a piece of paper is a worthwhile sacrifice so that people don't have to continually bury their children in the most horrific of circumstances.
People having easy access to handguns kills people. I understand that the gun is just a tool that is used by someone with obvious mental problems, but then why make that tool easy to access?
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yeah I don't really get the gun control argument from the nut jobs.
They are basically saying that if everyone had guns then killers would be deterred from attacking an armed location. (If this school had guns, the killer wouldn't even have attempted to go into the school).
But what if he still does? It's not like this guy was scared to die, he killed himself afterwards. Could the armed school people have protected the unarmed school people from being 'executed'? Maybe but then it just becomes a gunfight at the OK Corral in public areas, that can't be good either.
