Sorry for exploiting your land and letting you live in poverty. Here's a $1000.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

The reserves are colossal mess. Every single quality of life indicator is worse, on reserve then off. The mistreatment won't stop until they are abolished. Until that happens First Nations on reserves will continue to live a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This is factually incorrect. The differences, for the most part, are negligible

[return to the red]

Was this a mutually agreed upon settlement or awarded in the courts?

[polak]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

Why should they adjust to our way of life?

What exactly do you think "their" way of life is?

[polak]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This is factually incorrect. The differences, for the most part, are negligible

Um no it's not.
At least not according to the Sociology of health class I did which spent half of the semester talking about this very issue.

Every single marker is worse. Literacy, HIV, Poverty, Infant Mortality, Access to clean water, Life Expectancy. It's all worse on reserve.

http://64.26.129.156/cmslib/general/RFNC.pdf

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Azure

The remedy is assimilation. How we get there with the least amount of issues is a problem though.

Society has put such a premium on nationalism and identity politics that true assimilation is virtually impossible. How do you tell a culture basically "#### your language and traditions. Be more like us." It's cultural imperialism at its finest.

[return to the red]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This is factually incorrect. The differences, for the most part, are negligible

Take a trip to the Blood reserve outside of Lethbridge and then tell me if your opinion changes

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This is factually incorrect. The differences, for the most part, are negligible

You and I see reserves totally differently it would seem. My experiences with RCMP ride alongs on the reserves near my hometown is like being in a third world country.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Society has put such a premium on nationalism and identity politics that true assimilation is virtually impossible. How do you tell a culture basically "#### your language and traditions. Be more like us." It's cultural imperialism at its finest.

Nobody is saying it's right but it's what needs to be done.

The damage is done - our ancestors caused this mess now everyone is too scared to do the dirty work to clean it up.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

Why should they adjust to our way of life?

I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean. If by way of life you mean not be segregated to 'reserves', where the quality of life and standard of living is that of a 3rd world country.

There are a huge number of people living in Canada that are 'different' than your average 'white Canadian.' All these people have found ways to be successful, while at the same time hold onto many of their traditions. The Hutterites are a great example of this. The government worked with them to setup a legal method of being able to live in 'colonies', and they have been successful ever since. There is no reason why anyone else in Canada couldn't do this.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

Um no it's not.
At least not according to the Sociology of health class I did which spent half of the semester talking about this very issue.

Every single marker is worse. Literacy, HIV, Poverty, Infant Mortality, Access to clean water. It's all worse on reserve.

Like I said, they are worse on the reserve, but not substantially so to a point where complete assimilation is the answer.

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Nobody is saying it's right but it's what needs to be done.

The damage is done - our ancestors caused this mess now everyone is too scared to do the dirty work to clean it up.

Canada is a mosaic, your arguement is invalid.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Azure

The remedy is assimilation. How we get there with the least amount of issues is a problem though.

Realistically, if people are ok with assimilation of Natives here in North America, then they really shouldn't have any problems with how China is handling Tibet right? What's the difference? Both are conquered people being assimilated into the conquerer's society. The ultimate end game is the same, is it not?

[rubecube]

FFS, I'm not saying the reserve system is good or better than life outside the reserve. It's a ####show on most reserves. I'm saying reserve or assimilation is a false dilemma.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Breaching your fiduciary duty is a form of exploitation, IMO, especially if the government was profiting from it.

Forgive my ignorant post, but at this point the facts of the case seem to me:

- The Government held the land in trust for Natives
- The Government profited off of that land and didnt share that with the Natives
- Reparation payments, albeit insignificant, are being made

Now, from my limited understanding of the general Native situation, isnt one of their core issues concerning the poverty of the overwhelming number of Native Americans the fact that the band chiefs dont fairly distribute the resources?

So if the Government had made the profits and shared them with the Natives, would that have alleviated that poverty in any significant way?

Or is the outrage more about the fact that they didnt get the opportunity?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by rubecube

This is factually incorrect. The differences, for the most part, are negligible

Originally Posted by rubecube

Society has put such a premium on nationalism and identity politics that true assimilation is virtually impossible. How do you tell a culture basically "#### your language and traditions. Be more like us." It's cultural imperialism at its finest.

I'm beginning to wonder if you actually are aware of what the quality of life is like on your 'average' Native reserve.

And assimilation doesn't mean giving up your traditions. There are a variety of different groups of people in Canada that have held onto their traditions despite being treated like all other Canadians.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Like I said, they are worse on the reserve, but not substantially so to a point where complete assimilation is the answer.

You're kidding right? Every single Native that has left the reserve has gone on to life a WAY better life.

Its not even a question.

[rubecube]

Are people forgetting that assimilation was actually attempted at one point in Canada and pretty much made a messy situation even messier?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Realistically, if people are ok with assimilation of Natives here in North America, then they really shouldn't have any problems with how China is handling Tibet right? What's the difference? Both are conquered people being assimilated into the conquerer's society. The ultimate end game is the same, is it not?

Not sure how you can compare the two.

Canada has always been tolerant of the traditions of its people. As long as you follow the law and pay your taxes, nobody cares when you celebrate Christmas, or if you even do.

What 'traditions' that the Natives have would be 'lost' if the reserve system were abolished and the Native people were assimilated into the rest of Canada?

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Are people forgetting that assimilation was actually attempted at one point in Canada and pretty much made a messy situation even messier?

Exactly, and we can't hate on the FNs for having a lack of trust in the system that Fd them

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Azure

You're kidding right? Every single Native that has left the reserve has gone on to life a WAY better life.

Its not even a question.

Every single one, eh? Like these guys?

http://injusticebusters.org/index.htm/frozenghosts.htm

How about the ones that hangout downtown at the C-train station? Yeah, they're lives look pretty awesome.

And yes, I've been to several reserves. They are ####holes. The difference is assimilated natives don't all congregate in one living space where we can judge their living standards by driving through and looking at the catastrophe.