Beware illegal downloaders: Data is being collected on you to crack down on piracy in

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am not going to claim to be lily white on the VPN issue. I am on a VPN almost exclusively so I can access US Netflix. But I am still paying for Netflix. I get there are Canadian laws (######ed ones at that) that demand I watch a certain amount of Beachcombers and Mr D episodes a la "A clockwork Orange" style, and that I do not agree with. Is it a questionable grey area? sure. Is it illegal however? No. VPNs are not illegal, stealing movies and games is.

But at the end of the day, I am still paying for my services. My VPN membership is 80 bucks a year or something, and I still pay the monthly Netflix fee. Nobody is getting shafted.

Now this is interesting.

Technically the people who license the content are. They are not getting compensated for their Canadian rights to broadcast content in this country.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am not going to claim to be lily white on the VPN issue. I am on a VPN almost exclusively so I can access US Netflix. But I am still paying for Netflix. I get there are Canadian laws (######ed ones at that) that demand I watch a certain amount of Beachcombers and Mr D episodes a la "A clockwork Orange" style, and that I do not agree with. Is it a questionable grey area? sure. Is it illegal however? No. VPNs are not illegal, stealing movies and games is.

But at the end of the day, I am still paying for my services. My VPN membership is 80 bucks a year or something, and I still pay the monthly Netflix fee. Nobody is getting shafted.

You are still violating copyright law by accessing content in a country which you are not licensed to access it, given the subscription you have and the licensing fees that Netflix paid to the content provider.

If that content provider wanted to distribute that content in Canada, they would do so, and receive extra money from Netflix for that licensing.

End of the day, it isn't any more legal than downloading, although the exact laws and related punishments are likely different. Illegal is illegal.

[GreenLantern]

Ya.. I understand why they are doing it. They have to do something, but I just can't see it ever being fully removed from society. If I download off a network that has 20+ people on it, how the hell are they ever going to be able to pin it on one person?

Want to torrent? Go to Macdonalds and use their free wifi for half hour. Get your weekly stuff done... how do they combat this?

Edit: OK Macd's might be a bad example I am sure that internet is garbage, but say the open network at your local university with 10k+ kids on campus.. how do you pin that on one person?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Now this is interesting.

Technically the people who license the content are. They are not getting compensated for their Canadian rights to broadcast content in this country.

I am still paying though.

If I buy a camera lens from BandH photo in the US, I am denying the Vistek or any other Canadian retailer and the Canadian distributor the right to profit. But I am still paying for the lens, just in a different country with a better pricing model.

VPN's are not illegal. They just alter the delivery method. Stealing however is.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am not going to claim to be lily white on the VPN issue. I am on a VPN almost exclusively so I can access US Netflix. But I am still paying for Netflix. I get there are Canadian laws (######ed ones at that) that demand I watch a certain amount of Beachcombers and Mr D episodes a la "A clockwork Orange" style, and that I do not agree with. Is it a questionable grey area? sure. Is it illegal however? No. VPNs are not illegal, stealing movies and games is.

But at the end of the day, I am still paying for my services. My VPN membership is 80 bucks a year or something, and I still pay the monthly Netflix fee. Nobody is getting shafted.

Absolutely somebody is getting shafted. Someone in Canada has paid for the rights to broadcast that content in Canada.The same applies with music services. There is a Canadian rights holder who negotiates and pays for those rights. The reason that the CRTC doesn't allow you to subscribe to US feeds is because the US rights holders have not paid for Canadian distribution. If they did then they would have to meet CanCon rules but that is not the sticking point.

I read up a bit on Rhapsody and why they couldn't come to Canada. It came down to the fees that the Canadian rights holders were asking. They wanted a fixed rate per song when Rhapsody operates on a flat rate per month for unlimited songs and has that agreement in place in the States. I don't agree with it at all and think that Canadian rights holders are shooting themselves in the foot by being difficult. The easiest way that I can see to force them to adapt is to circumvent them by using a VPN and going to the US for the feed. None of that means that the rights holder in Canada isn't being shafted, just that they are getting shafted because people think that what they are doing is wrong.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

The Flames have to staff the dome according to attendance. That includes cleaning staff, ushers, security, etc. I know you're "just one guy" but this crime still does damage to the business.

The Flames ticket analogy doesn't really work since in theory, it would be someone duplicating a ticket, but there is infinite capacity at the Dome to accomodate everyone who enters for free. The Dome still gets the money from paying customers, but now you have a bunch of "casuals" and cheapskates who didn't pay for their ticket watching the Flames.

You can argue that a small portion of these people who enter for free take a liking to what they see, and then purchase actual tickets (ie. the people who pirate but end up buying the game/movie/song because they like it).

Of course, you'll still have a vast majority of people who will continue to watch for free, or people who used to pay that convert to not paying (since they can still easily see the game without paying).

Also, if you are going to use this analogy, then the TV thing would be like the Flames forcing customers to buy game packs that include Hitmen/Roughneck/Stamps games, even though you only want to watch the Flames. For the sake of argument, lets say that makes it 4 times more expensive than what a Flames game itself is worth. People get fed up and decide they'd rather just copy the Flames ticket and watch it for free rather than pay the 4 times cost.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am still paying though.

If I buy a camera lens from BandH photo in the US, I am denying the Vistek or any other Canadian retailer and the Canadian distributor the right to profit. But I am still paying for the lens, just in a different country with a better pricing model.

VPN's are not illegal. They just alter the delivery method. Stealing however is.

VPN's are not illegal but what you do with them might be.

As for the camera I don't know, but some products have regional restrictions. For example a US clothing company is not allowed to ship Canada Goose Down jackets to Canada because someone has paid for exclusive distribution in Canada.

[Jimmy Stang]

I have seen the CRTC get slammed a few times in this thread, but keep in mind that the CRTC doesn't really have anything to do with my we can't get as much content in Canada as in the US.

The problem is the rights holders of the content. The TV and movie industries have different licensing agreements with different countries and regions around the world. Canada doesn't have Hulu not because of the CRTC, but because the right sholders aren't interested in providing it (or, they would argue, they already provide the content on their own sites). The selection on Netflix Canada is less (and different) than in the US because the rights are often held by different entities in different countries, not because the CRTC is regulating the type of content you are receiving.

There are probably all sorts of antiquated and poor reasons why the owners of these rights would rather you not be able to get their content easily and legally, but it definitely isn't the CRTC.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am still paying though.

If I buy a camera lens from BandH photo in the US, I am denying the Vistek or any other Canadian retailer and the Canadian distributor the right to profit. But I am still paying for the lens, just in a different country with a better pricing model.

VPN's are not illegal. They just alter the delivery method. Stealing however is.

You're allowed to import a lens. You pay tax and if there's duty applicable you pay that as well. Using a VPN for blocked content is quite different. You're paying for one service and receiving another by masking your location.

Personally I don't disagree with bypassing regional restrictions in the slightest, but it's definitely not completely on the up and up. You're using technology to circumvent copyright protection measures.

[Azure]

How many people here would pay $10-$20 per month to watch all the latest TV episodes on Hulu or something?

I'm sure lots here already buy episodes on iTunes. I would pay that money if it meant I could watch the episode from the night before the next day if I missed it.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Since when did it become okay to commit any form of crime?

You are missing the point.

If you don't know what you are talking about, you're opinion carries little value. It's the same here as in every other issue.

If you are unable to grasp the distinction between piracy and theft, you are incapable of having an informed opinion on whether or not it's wrong or right.

And as usual, the people who know the least tend to have the strongest opinions on this issue.

For pointers, I actually personally know people who make all or at least a part of their living on intellectual property, including movies and music, and many who try to do so. I don't know anyone who supports the current draconian IP laws as they are.

(And for the record, I also do know people who have their own businesses.)

Personally I think debating the morality of piracy is pointless. In my opinion history has clearly shown that technology never goes backwards, and that these kind of crimes can never be stopped.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Azure

How many people here would pay $10-$20 per month to watch all the latest TV episodes on Hulu or something?

I'm sure lots here already buy episodes on iTunes. I would pay that money if it meant I could watch the episode from the night before the next day if I missed it.

What?
So you want access to everything but you dont want to pay regular cable prices?

I'm sure everyone here would love to pay $20 for all the latest tv on hulu but why would that be cheaper then regular cable?

The reason hulu is cheaper then cable is because they don't have every latest tv show.

The ideal service would be something like a guide that you would scroll through and then pick exactly what you want to watch and "buy it" for $1 or whatever. But that would never work economically and you'd start to lose every "niche" thing on tv.

TV would be nothing but Reality TV, Big Bang Theory and Two and A Half Men clones on repeat and I'm sorry, that would be far too much laughtrack crap for me to take.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am still paying though.

If I buy a camera lens from BandH photo in the US, I am denying the Vistek or any other Canadian retailer and the Canadian distributor the right to profit. But I am still paying for the lens, just in a different country with a better pricing model.

VPN's are not illegal. They just alter the delivery method. Stealing however is.

Downloading content is only illegal because it is in violation of copyright law, which prevent 'stealing' of work of intellectual property. Those same laws allow content providers to license content to be distributed by DVD, digital download, streaming services, etc.

The fact that you are paying for it doesn't change the fact that you are not accessing it in a manner which the owner of the content has been compensated for.

It's like saying downloading content from a premium newsgroups service isn't stealing, because you pay $20 to sign up for the service.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by opendoor

You're allowed to import a lens. You pay tax and if there's duty applicable you pay that as well. Using a VPN for blocked content is quite different. You're paying for one service and receiving another by masking your location.

Personally I don't disagree with bypassing regional restrictions in the slightest, but it's definitely not completely on the up and up. You're using technology to circumvent copyright protection measures.

And I fully realize that, and am not denying the fact that it may be questionable. What I am arguing, is out and out stealing exclusive content.

Getting creative to get the best price on a product or service is one thing. Just Stuffing it in your pocket, and walking out the front door without paying is another.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by polak

What?
So you want access to everything but you dont want to pay regular cable prices?

I'm sure everyone here would love to pay $20 for all the latest tv on hulu but why would that be cheaper then regular cable?

The reason hulu is cheaper then cable is because they don't have every latest tv show.

The ideal service would be something like a guide that you would scroll through and then pick exactly what you want to watch and "buy it" for $1 or whatever. But that would never work economically and you'd start to lose every "niche" thing on tv.

TV would be nothing but Reality TV, Big Bang Theory and Two and A Half Men clones on repeat and I'm sorry, that would be far too much laughtrack crap for me to take.

You do realize that Netflix costs $10 per month. Rdio costs $10/month. If price points are met accordingly, people will sign up. Even for $30/month, people will probably sign up.

The point is that if someone offered a service where someone could watch all the latest TV episodes the day after they aired for a monthly fee, piracy would drop drastically.

Such a service is not available, so people pirate the shows if they miss them.

[HOOT]

I agree with Itse on how this is all too similar to the War on Drugs. You are going to be punishing people for a harmless crime when there will be no way to stop it from continuing on and getting larger. People are just going to do more underground. Sure there won’t be PirateB or anything like that but there will always be something.

Personally I have no issue with illegal downloads because I have found a lot of good stuff to actually purchase because of it. Shows I would never watch, movies I would never normally rent/buy, music I would never listen to, etc.

The best example I can give is my favorite band became my favorite band because of illegal downloading. I had a friend with an extra ticket to one of their shows and I wanted to hear them before going over to Vancouver. Downloaded their latest album, liked them, went to their concert and since then have bought all their albums, been to every concert in the NW, bought their DVD bio, etc, etc, etc. So because of that one download I ended up actually paying for a ton of stuff I probably wouldn't have. And that isn’t a rare thing to happen. I do the same thing with movies where if I like it that much I’ll buy the real copy.

I wish movie companies would team up with iTunes or something of that sort where you can watch the first 20-30 minutes of a movie for free and if you want to continue you pay whatever the cost is. Personally for me I illegally download to preview stuff so I don't buy something I don’t want. The entertainment industry needs to stop taking advantage of its customers and maybe people wouldn't feel the need to "steal" their content to make sure it isn't garbage.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Azure

The point is that if someone offered a service where someone could watch all the latest TV episodes the day after they aired for a monthly fee, piracy would drop drastically.

That and with Netflix/Hulu the companies know exactly how many people watch each show, so the cost can be more appropriate, where with cable I just pay a big fee to get a bunch of channels all strategically grouped to maximize the $$ I have to pay.

Like with iTunes, closer to pay per use rather than pay for a firehose of content.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by polak

The ideal service would be something like a guide that you would scroll through and then pick exactly what you want to watch and "buy it" for $1 or whatever. But that would never work economically and you'd start to lose every "niche" thing on tv.

TV would be nothing but Reality TV, Big Bang Theory and Two and A Half Men clones on repeat and I'm sorry, that would be far too much laughtrack crap for me to take.

Not sure why you think that. Networks are in the business to make money - if a show doesn't make money or the ratings it needs, it gets cancelled. It really has nothing to do with the success or failure of the Big Bang Theory.

It has done fine in the music industry, where people buy a lot of single songs and not albums.

Heck I would just be happy if you could pay for just the channels you want on a monthy basis and have an option to only pay for an HD or SD channel (not both like you currently do).

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

You should walk into Holt Renfrew and steal a Burberry Wallet......$500 for a wallet? Lick my balls, Burberry.

for some reason that made me laugh!

[polak]

Originally Posted by Azure

You do realize that Netflix costs $10 per month. Rdio costs $10/month. If price points are met accordingly, people will sign up. Even for $30/month, people will probably sign up.

The point is that if someone offered a service where someone could watch all the latest TV episodes the day after they aired for a monthly fee, piracy would drop drastically.

Such a service is not available, so people pirate the shows if they miss them.

I'm just saying that such a service already exists. It's called full cable.

Netflix, Hulu, all of those guys pay to host the shows and movies that they have just like cable and dish providers do... The reason that the streaming services are so much cheaper is because they DON'T have every single tv episode and they pay less to air it after it airs live. How do you think they are going to make any money if they start offering the same thing as full cable but without charging as much?

They have to pay for Community, Mad Men, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad...etc regardless if you watch it or not. If they all of the sudden start offering EVERYTHING they still have to pay for the stupid TLC shows that you're not going to watch so they will have to charge more regardless and essentially, become a streaming version of full cable.

A pay per use model where Netflix doesn't pay AMC unless someone watches Breaking Bad would be ideal but I don't see how that would work economically unless you dramatically reduce the cost of making such shows and networks trim ALL of the "fat" that doesn't get great ratings OR you start charging ridiculous prices.