Beware illegal downloaders: Data is being collected on you to crack down on piracy in

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by pylon

If someone gives you a free car, that they stole, it doesn't make you Robin Hood.

Of course not.

It makes THEM Robin Hood.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Do you believe all laws are just? Including those that are financed by corporate lobbyists and private interests?

Does it matter what I believe as long as I live within the framework of the Canadian society? There's no grey area here. Pirating software is electronic shoplifting.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Don't fly with that airline. Consumption of media isn't a right.

Not debating that it is a right. That is an entirely other discussion.

But this isn't just one airline. This is all of them. So you're saying I really shouldn't bother travelling unless I want to drive.

I could get my cable through Shaw... or Telus... or Shaw... Decisions, decisions.

[Raekwon]

Sneaking into a hockey game and taking an empty seat that wasn't going to be used anyway is stealing? If anything it offers a chance for the company to make money in other ways ie: alcohol, concession etc.

Think of games the same way, I imagine the majority of people that download a game would never have bought it anyway but now they love it and word of mouth spreads and maybe they sell a few copies because of it. Maybe, maybe not.

If the movie entertainment business lowered prices to combat piracy instead of raising them I would bet their sales would go up, as it stands now it costs a family of 6 well over $100 for a single night out at the movies. Why would I pay that much money to sit in a theatre with a bunch of inconsiderate pricks when I can click a button and watch it in the comfort of my home.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Does it matter what I believe as long as I live within the framework of the Canadian society? There's no grey area here. Pirating software is electronic shoplifting.

So you're saying that the laws as they stand are just and no one needs to push for change?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Sneaking into a hockey game and taking an empty seat that wasn't going to be used anyway is stealing?

This post illustrates the problem with the younger generation. No clue.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So you're saying that the laws as they stand are just and no one needs to push for change?

That's an entirely different topic. Come talk to me when they in fact change. Until that happens the law is the law.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Does it matter what I believe as long as I live within the framework of the Canadian society? There's no grey area here. Pirating software is electronic shoplifting.

No, it's copyright infringement.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by pylon

I can see the logic behind your point, I still don't agree.

Now address the hockey ticket example please.

Hockey ticket one would be harder to address because in a lot of cases you are actually stealing a seat from someone that matters.

However, you can think about it another way. In fact, it is probably how a lot of people currently think of Piracy.

Lets say that someone pirates a ticket to a sold out event, but does not go and steal the seat from the person actually holding the ticket, instead stands around the stadium getting kind of a crappy view of the game. But he buys a beer.

Should Flames ownership be upset because Pylon illegally entered the dome and gave $8 more revenue to the Flames than they would have received normally?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Not debating that it is a right. That is an entirely other discussion.

But this isn't just one airline. This is all of them. So you're saying I really shouldn't bother travelling unless I want to drive.

I could get my cable through Shaw... or Telus... or Shaw... Decisions, decisions.

Yet you are still forced to pay for basic cable if you want TV. Unless you are a really big fan of HGTV, I do not see how you are letting this comtinue.

One thing I have noticed, is that the vast majority of people that argue piracy is perfectly OK, are people that have never owned a business, or been in a position where they rely on on revenue from an exclusive niche product to earn a living. I can guarantee you, if you were the inventor of splinkets and had invested half your life and your life savings in creating them, and a guy down the street had snuck into your shop overnight, stolen the mold, and was recreating 'splinkets' as 'splonkets' and giving them away for free, you would certainly take issue.

Again because he is giving them away to take he has not only stolen from you, he has irreparably driven the market value of splinkets down, and damaged your products value.

People that say "OMG a movie is 12 bucks that's sooooooooo expensive." fail to realize that 20 years ago, it was 9 dollars to see a movie. And we didn't have the same piracy issues then. WHen I go and see a movie, my thinking is "Holy crap, this thing cost 130 mil to produce, and I only have to pay 12 bucks to see it and watch it on a billionty inch TV with googolphonic sound? Sweet."

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's an entirely different topic. Come talk to me when they in fact change. Until that happens the law is the law.

Actually it's the exact same topic. The progress of change happens in this order:

1. Legislation
2. Illegal behaviour contrary to legislation
3. Government crackdown on citizenry
4. Lobbying for change/repealing of laws

What happens after is up to the courts, but the only ways unjust laws can change is if citizenry combats it, rather than says "oh well I guess that's the law then, even if it only benefits large corporations and isn't beneficial to the common person in any way."

Originally Posted by pylon

People that say "OMG a movie is 12 bucks that's sooooooooo expensive." fail to realize that 20 years ago, it was 9 dollars to see a movie. And we didn't have the same piracy issues then. WHen I go and see a movie, my thinking is "Holy crap, this thing cost 130 mil to produce, and I only have to pay 12 bucks to see it and watch it on a billionty inch TV with googolphonic sound? Sweet."

"And all I have to put up with is some jackass talking in my ear, screaming chilidren, dip####s on their cellphone for 80% of the movie, and $12 meal combos! Oh boy!"

[CaramonLS]

Another point to consider - perhaps someone can answer this for me.

I want to watch the first season of Friends. The first season is readily available to me (technically) skewn across the multitude of Cable channels I already subscribe to, and could probably be collected by me via PVR if I was not being lazy, over the course of a week or two.

Is that stealing if I download it illegally?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This post illustrates the problem with the younger generation. No clue.

Yes. This generation invented sneaking into shows, movies and concerts. I'm sure your generation would never dream of doing that, or recording tv onto a VHS tape or the radio onto a cassette.

Also, if you think the artist is hurt by illegal downloads you are misinformed. They make the VAST majority of their money from live shows. They always have. It's the record companies, the middle man, that is trying to fight piracy but again, don't be fooled if you think they are actually hurting. The smart ones have realized that there is no money in selling music and have started taking a cut of their acts revenues from live shows and this cost is paid by you when you buy tickets.

Everyone is making money still. The record companies are just trying to continue to double dip and are scared because technology has allowed people to circumvent this.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's an entirely different topic. Come talk to me when they in fact change. Until that happens the law is the law.

They have changed. Recently. Bill C-11. And, it is a huge very area which would be clear if you actually understood any of this. Fair use, commercial vs. non commercial infringement etc.

And which generation are you exactly from because this stuff goes back a loooooong way. Like 17th century.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Hockey ticket one would be harder to address because in a lot of cases you are actually stealing a seat from someone that matters.

However, you can think about it another way. In fact, it is probably how a lot of people currently think of Piracy.

Lets say that someone pirates a ticket to a sold out event, but does not go and steal the seat from the person actually holding the ticket, instead stands around the stadium getting kind of a crappy view of the game. But he buys a beer.

Should Flames ownership be upset because Pylon illegally entered the dome and gave $8 more revenue to the Flames than they would have received normally?

The problem is, just like piracy, once people realize you can get away with this means of obtaining admission, eventually a large majority of people will be doing it, and you will have a half empty lower bowl, and a bunch of cheap neck beards standing in the concourse watching through a seas of people next to the pocket dawg stand. No different than my friend with a 100 projector screen in his basement theatre room with a HK sound system, that he watches subtitled Turkish versions of The Amazing Spiderman on, that were recorded with a broom handle in 12p in the cafeteria of a low security prison on good behaviour movie night.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Another point to consider - perhaps someone can answer this for me.

I want to watch the first season of Friends. The first season is readily available to me (technically) skewn across the multitude of Cable channels I already subscribe to, and could probably be collected by me via PVR if I was not being lazy, over the course of a week or two.

Is that stealing if I download it illegally?

Thats the funny thing because technically it is stealing because the companies that own the rights to broadcast the shows lose out on Ad revenue. Services like Hulu are prime examples of a good business plan as they make these shows readily available in one place when you want them all while either charging a fee or making it free but leaving advertisements in.


A better question is if I recorded friends from my TV then removed the ads and saved them to a computer is that stealing? If not then why is it all of a sudden stealing when I share that same show with people?

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Since when did it become okay to commit any form of crime?

Justification for immoral behaviour? Theft / copyright infringement arguments seem like pointless semantic talk to me.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by pylon

Yet you are still forced to pay for basic cable if you want TV. Unless you are a really big fan of HGTV, I do not see how you are letting this comtinue.

One thing I have noticed, is that the vast majority of people that argue piracy is perfectly OK, are people that have never owned a business, or been in a position where they rely on on revenue from an exclusive niche product to earn a living. I can guarantee you, if you were the inventor of splinkets and had invested half your life and your life savings in creating them, and a guy down the street had snuck into your shop overnight, stolen the mold, and was recreating 'splinkets' as 'splonkets' and giving them away for free, you would certainly take issue.

Again because he is giving them away to take he has not only stolen from you, he has irreparably driven the market value of splinkets down, and damaged your products value.

People that say "OMG a movie is 12 bucks that's sooooooooo expensive." fail to realize that 20 years ago, it was 9 dollars to see a movie. And we didn't have the same piracy issues then. WHen I go and see a movie, my thinking is "Holy crap, this thing cost 130 mil to produce, and I only have to pay 12 bucks to see it and watch it on a billionty inch TV with googolphonic sound? Sweet."

Honestly?

Nothing pisses me off more than seeing my cable / Internet bill for each month being about $129, and realizing that I haven't watched a single thing on TV apart from maybe a couple hours of NFL football or a non-existant Flames game and maybe a little bit of Sportscentre.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Honestly?

Nothing pisses me off more than seeing my cable / Internet bill for each month being about $129, and realizing that I haven't watched a single thing on TV apart from maybe a couple hours of NFL football or a non-existant Flames game and maybe a little bit of Sportscentre.

I don't watch TV but my wife has 3 or 4 shows she likes. Of course these 3 or 4 shows are on different channels which Shaw packaged all into different groups forcing me to pay for 4 different groups to watch 4 shows.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Justification for immoral behaviour? Theft / copyright infringement arguments seem like pointless semantic talk to me.

The distinction between tangible property rights and an asserted right to an intangible idea/concept is not semantic. Ordinary theft crime like shoplifting is an easy touchstone for people too lazy or stupid to bother understanding the different public policies underlying regulation relating to theft as opposed to copyright law.