2012-2013 Toronto Blue Jays Off Season Thread - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

KelVarnsen · 10-03-2012, 08:49 PM

Well the season for the Jays is over. Going to be an interesting off season. Does Farrell move the Red Sox? Do the Jays trade Yunel? So many questions.

Sylvanfan · 10-03-2012, 09:36 PM

Do the Jays try to bring in another starting pitcher? That's the big one for me.

nik- · 10-03-2012, 10:29 PM

They have to, they need an Ace. And that's based on the assumption that this season was an aberration for Romero. If not, they need an ace and a number 2.

saskflames69 · 10-03-2012, 10:34 PM

If Sad Sack Oakland can win the AL west, then certainly Rich Uncle Ted Rogers Toronto should stop dickin' around and buy themselves a World Series-calibre team already.

Caged Great · 10-03-2012, 10:44 PM

The Jays need an Ace or #2, and a legit #3/4 (A Marcum type from a few years ago), a left fielder that can hit reasonably well and a DH/1B.

Hechavarria defensively is so good that you can accept him as the 2B even if he only OPS's .600.

It's relatively easy to get a DH/1B. It's relatively easy to get a decent LF (it's the least important OF position in terms of defense), so the onus is more on getting a pair of starters.

I hope they can find a pair of good batters, and it should be easy to get a pair of starters as long as they cash in some of their better prospects or a guy like JPA.

Cheese · 10-04-2012, 08:10 AM

just for fun...who do you guys think will be the biggest surprise player on the Jays "not to return" next year?
Yunel is almost a no brainer, Johnson is done...and a few others like Davis and Lind.
How about Encarnacion? Will Bautista want to wait until we build the winner or will he fetch that #1 starter we need?
This team needs a blockbuster deal like the As made...take a big gamble.

howard_the_duck · 10-04-2012, 09:19 AM

I don't think the Jays can bank on Ricky bouncing back and being a top of the rotation guy. I think you plan to have him as a 3/4 and go out and a target a surefire top of the rotation guy. In a perfect world they acquire 2 big arms and it would put them in a heck of a position if Ricky does bounce back to his previous form.

I agree about LF and 1B. Not as challenging to fill those holes as the bat is more important than what they provide defensively.

I'm hoping they don't need to give up one of the big 3 Lansing arms or D'Arnaud to fill these holes but I have my doubts. IMO Sanchez and D'Arnaud should be nearly untouchable but we shall see.

The Big Chill · 10-04-2012, 11:10 AM

I hope AA sticks to the course and doesn't give up many prospects. IMO we are better off continuing to develop the farm system rather then trying to win now and sacrificing future.

Caged Great · 10-04-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

I hope AA sticks to the course and doesn't give up many prospects. IMO we are better off continuing to develop the farm system rather then trying to win now and sacrificing future.

The only prospects I'd be comfortable giving up are in the AA, and AAA rosters mostly. I'd be pissed if any of Snydergaard, Sanchez, Osuna, or Nicolino are dealt.

As for guys like Gose and Marisnick, if you can trade them for someone legit now regardless of their position, you should look at it. We have a ton of depth in the upper part of the system for outfielders, but we have even more in the lower part coming up, from Anderson, Knecht, Alford, Davis, Smith etc so we can deal from our other area of depth to fill a need elsewhere.

Another thought is to possibly have Travis D'Arnaud become the 1B moving EE to DH. It would be saving his knees and preventing an injury prone player from being more so. I'd only be in favour of that type of move for next year if we got someone like Josh Hamilton to be the LF though to boost the overall output of those two positions

GirlySports · 10-04-2012, 11:41 AM

John Hamilton would probably cost about 6 years 160 million. And you don't have to give up any prospects!

Berger · 10-04-2012, 11:45 AM

Offseason need is obviously starting pitching. I can see Escobar being packaged with a prospect for a top of the rotation guy. I like what I seen with Gose and Hech. The at bats they got this year will only help their development into full time players. I was iffy on trading Escobar but after seeing the way Hech can play I would have no problem trading Escobar if we got a Starter in return.

Caged Great · 10-04-2012, 11:49 AM

Of all the players out there, the one that I think does make the most sense financially is Josh Hamilton. Even if you gave him 25 per for 6 or 7 years, that would be worth it as you'd have 3 awesome hitters and could surround them with another couple that could be above average (Lawrie, Rasmus, TDA). It would then make sense to trade for a pitcher or two, even if you have to give up several guys like Gose, Marisnick, JPA/TDA, etc.

The Jays have a bunch of guys on entry level or so contracts (450K or so), so having a guy making a bunch of money like Hamilton would be offset by the amount of bargain bin guys.

Sylvanfan · 10-04-2012, 12:13 PM

Is D'Arnaud going to hit enough to justify moving him to first base though? I was always under the impression that what made him valuable was how good he was defensively. Basically even if he was a 270/330/750 hitter, he'd still be well above a replacement player because of his defence.

I think I might be with Cheese though...if the team isn't going to compete next year..than why keep a guy like Bautista around. A year or two from now how productive will he really be? Maybe you need to do like the A's did and move out a big name or two to try and get some high ceiling guys who are close to being major league ready. How many more years is Morrow under team control...perhaps you have to look at moving him out for a big return if it's there.

The worst thing the team can do is keep all the guys they have, without making the moves to acquire another pitcher or two that would be top of the rotation starters. Maybe it's a perpetual rebuild, but baseball is set up where you really can't try to be a middling team...you either throw in all your chips, or you throw in the towel.

flambers · 10-04-2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

just for fun...who do you guys think will be the biggest surprise player on the Jays "not to return" next year?
Yunel is almost a no brainer, Johnson is done...and a few others like Davis and Lind.
How about Encarnacion? Will Bautista want to wait until we build the winner or will he fetch that #1 starter we need?
This team needs a blockbuster deal like the As made...take a big gamble.

Yunel is most likely to return, I am sure the Jays would love to trade the guy.... Could be tough to find him a new home.

Johnson is a UFA is gone for sure.

As for position players, Rasmus, Bautista, Lawrie, Encarnacion will return

JP could be traded....

Lind would be traded if they can find a team... (unlikely for sure)

As for block buster... it would need to contain a high end blue chip prospect and a mid tier prospect at least..... Maybe the Jays could include Yunel.

flambers · 10-04-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

John Hamilton would probably cost about 6 years 160 million. And you don't have to give up any prospects!

Would think Jays will add budget on Starters.... They can not afford a guy like Hamilton.

flambers · 10-04-2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I think I might be with Cheese though...if the team isn't going to compete next year..than why keep a guy like Bautista around. A year or two from now how productive will he really be?

Maybe you need to do like the A's did and move out a big name or two to try and get some high ceiling guys who are close to being major league ready. How many more years is Morrow under team control...perhaps you have to look at moving him out for a big return if it's there.

.

That sounds like a rebuild move, why would the Jays look at that path?

Jays have high end prospects at the A / AA level.

They need Major league ready Players / Starters....

Opposite would be a step back.... IMO

Sylvanfan · 10-04-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

That sounds like a rebuild move, why would the Jays look at that path?

Jays have high end prospects at the A / AA level.

They need Major league ready Players / Starters....

Opposite would be a step back.... IMO

Because guys at A/AA are still a year or two away from being impact major league guys.

Even if they get MLB ready guys for next year what is the best the team is going to do? The teams record regressed significantly the last two years with a guy like Bautista in the lineup.

If they load up on more players so they have a solid pool two years from now does it give them a better team? At that point they can

Oakland had no qualms dealing off Gonzalez, and Cahil this past offseason...to stock up on guys who were a year or two away...worked pretty good for them as a lot of those guys were up to the challenge by the end of the year. I don't see Oakland carrying big salary players on thier payroll year after year to win 80 games.

Flickered Flame · 10-04-2012, 12:45 PM

Oakland always sells pitchers when value is high, they don't wait.

For the Jays, starting pitching is a must. They might be better off dumping Escobar, playing Hech at short, moving Lawrie to 2nd and finding a new 3rd basemen.

Cheese · 10-04-2012, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Yunel is most likely to return, I am sure the Jays would love to trade the guy.... Could be tough to find him a new home.

Johnson is a UFA is gone for sure.

As for position players, Rasmus, Bautista, Lawrie, Encarnacion will return

JP could be traded....

Lind would be traded if they can find a team... (unlikely for sure)

As for block buster... it would need to contain a high end blue chip prospect and a mid tier prospect at least..... Maybe the Jays could include Yunel.

Rumor around here is Rasmus is a goner...at least thats the buzz. Yunel wont be back, AA will take whatever he can get for him as he really created a black eye for the team with his racist comment. Not much support in TO for that.

howard_the_duck · 10-04-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheese

Rumor around here is Rasmus is a goner...at least thats the buzz. Yunel wont be back, AA will take whatever he can get for him as he really created a black eye for the team with his racist comment. Not much support in TO for that.

Curious where you heard that? I think it would be a mistake in terms of his trade value and what he could potentially do with a more veteran laden lineup if they're fully healthy next season.