Is it a hate crime?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by valo403

You honestly think that crimes motivated by hatred against a particular group of people who are specifically targeted due to their beliefs/race etc. should be treated the same as random actions? Why? There have been many posts that talk about why hate crimes should be punished more severely, counter those points and raise your own.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up random actions. Was not one of the points raised that motive matters?

Why do you seem to think there are only 2 choices of crimes, random ones and those that are hate crimes?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

You know Cecil...while it may not be flawless legislation...any effort to address bullying is A-OK by me

[polak]

Has there ever been a case of racially motivated hate crime charges being laid against a minority against a white person?

Just curious.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up random actions. Was not one of the points raised that motive matters?

Why do you seem to think there are only 2 choices of crimes, random ones and those that are hate crimes?

Are you ever going to actually make an attempt to provide any form of reasoning here or are you just trolling?

Why do you not think hate crime laws should exist? This should be an easy thing for you to answer.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by polak

Has there ever been a case of racially motivated hate crime charges being laid against a minority against a white person?

Just curious.

Would it matter one way or another?

Its actually funny, because the very broad 'religious' target that some people in this tread don't want protected under hate speech laws is the majority AFAIK.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

That is what makes 'us' different from the rest of the world - we heavily defend the rights of minorities. Have a look at the countries with the opposite approach, most are in states of war or serious oppression.

We have hate crimes, I am not sure if I totally support them, but as long as they help enforce the fact we are all 'equal' I am fine enforcing these laws.

Well I disagree and I believe that part of being equal is that everyone's rights are protected equally. That means that minority rights are protected just as much as the majority's rights. That includes not making different sets of crimes and punishments depending on whom they are committed, a minority or a non-minority.

I think that punishment should be irrespective of race, religion etc. Not the other way around.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by valo403

Are you ever going to actually make an attempt to provide any form of reasoning here or are you just trolling?

Why do you not think hate crime laws should exist? This should be an easy thing for you to answer.

If you don't like my answers maybe you need to start asking different questions.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Would it matter one way or another?

Well, if the law only goes one way then yeah. I think that would be a problem.

You don't think a person has ever been victimized because their white? If they have, then shouldn't that be a hate crime?

Thats why I'm asking

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by polak

Well, if the law only goes one way then yeah. I think that would be a problem.

You don't think a person has ever been victimized because their white? If they have, then shouldn't that be a hate crime?

Thats why I'm asking

I guess my edit was a bit late.

Of course it should be, and as I mentioned in my ninja edit, the religious community (meaning all religions) protected by these laws is much larger than the non-religious community. Of course that is overly simplistic, since religious cases are often one religion against another type actions, so the target is almost certainly not in the majority.

[hmmhmmcamo]

nm

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Well I disagree and I believe that part of being equal is that everyone's rights are protected equally. That means that minority rights are protected just as much as the majority's rights. That includes not making different sets of crimes and punishments depending on whom they are committed, a minority or a non-minority.

I think that punishment should be irrespective of race, religion etc. Not the other way around.

The hate crime legislation protects all people. Everyone belongs to some kind of religious (or lack thereof), racial, sexual orientation or gender group. The hate crime legislation applies to all groups.

The legislation provides enhanced protection for groups above the protection normally given to individuals. This does not change the rights of the individual minority or non minority person.

So if any group is attacked for being what they are. Say White males are targeted for being white it would be a hate crime.

The fact that not all groups have hate crimes committed against them really demonstrates the need for the legislation

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GGG

The hate crime legislation protects all people. Everyone belongs to some kind of religious (or lack thereof), racial, sexual orientation or gender group. The hate crime legislation applies to all groups.

The legislation provides enhanced protection for groups above the protection normally given to individuals. This does not change the rights of the individual minority or non minority person.

So if any group is attacked for being what they are. Say White males are targeted for being white it would be a hate crime.

The fact that not all groups have hate crimes committed against them really demonstrates the need for the legislation

And here I thought that's what the laws in place, prior to hate crime legislation, were doing already.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

And here I thought that's what the laws in place, prior to hate crime legislation, were doing already.

If a group is targeted i think you need to send a message that hatred against a group is not acceptable. As prejidice is a learned behaviour it is important to identify it and get rid of it.

A crime done because you are part of a group is worse than random crime.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GGG

If a group is targeted i think you need to send a message that hatred against a group is not acceptable. As prejidice is a learned behaviour it is important to identify it and get rid of it.

A crime done because you are part of a group is worse than random crime.

I totally agree with the first part. Obviously I disagree with how they're doing it though.

As for the second part then it becomes a matter of why? And then to consider how often is crime truly random? It isn't like every act of violence or vandalism is without motive. What automatically makes those motives less deserving of punishment without consideration of the motive itself.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by GGG

If a group is targeted i think you need to send a message that hatred against a group is not acceptable. As prejidice is a learned behaviour it is important to identify it and get rid of it.

A crime done because you are part of a group is worse than random crime.

Even more important (IMO) is that this is enforced by the state itself - it makes it very clear for everyone that lives here or is moving here that we do not stand for this behavior.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I totally agree with the first part. Obviously I disagree with how they're doing it though.

As for the second part then it becomes a matter of why? And then to consider how often is crime truly random? It isn't like every act of violence or vandalism is without motive. What automatically makes those motives less deserving of punishment without consideration of the motive itself.

I think it is because how hatred spreads. People are inherently predjudiced if racism is allowed to percist it will spread. So to fight that the state identifies these types of motives as worse.

I think that if you look at the motives for crime hatred is in fact a worse reason for a crime then the others as there is no lack of control or personal gain. It is a completely unecessary crime. In general the motives for crime are

Money
Revenge / Jealosy
Hate
Rage
Entertainment

Rage is less contolable more spur of the moment, but other than that the motives are self serving except for a hate crime which has no purpose but inflicting pain

[1stLand]

Theres far too many bullies in the world.