2012 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[The Big Chill]

6-7 games back from the leaders was probably what most of us were expecting this season. The top prospects we have have yet to make the jump to the majors, and may still be a couple of years away. It takes time to build a winner.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Well the Yankees have had a fair amount of injuries themselves. They do have the ability to stock their roster with better depth which has let them survive. The Rays stayed afloat while dealing with injuries.

I hear all this hype about Jays prospects...yet what have they done in the majors? I certainly haven't seen anyone come up who looks like they'll be anything more than an average player so far.

Roy Halladay traded 3 seasons ago, what do the Jays have to show for it...two guys done for the season with injuries, and a guy who so far can't hit major league pitching. This after they kicked in money to trade him to the Phillies, and flipped the one guy who's somewhat been able to hit major league pitching.

Defend the Jays all you like, but right now they're looking like the only AL East team to not make the playoffs in the last 5 years. They knew damn well going into this season that they lacked depth in their rotation and the minor league guys have either got injured, or not been up to par. The Athletics have had injuries to their rotation too...yet they actually find a way to win.

I suspect that even if the Jays team had stayed healthy, they would still be 6-7 games behind the top 3 teams in the Division. They're more hype than substance in my books. Will be until they can play a full season and win more than 86 games.

Yankees or the Rays are not in even in the same ball park in terms of injuries as the Jays. (i.e. when has anyone ever seen a team lose 3 starting pithers in a row to serious injuries.... 2 ot them with Tommy John Surgeries)

An example of what the Jays can do is trade a "Brandon League" Calbre of a prospect for a #2 Starter.... The deeper the pool of talent the vast amount of options that are present. Key is will AA trade some of the Assets.....?

Jays said all along, this season they were not ready.... They needed more time. I suspect in the off-season key area of concern being the Starting Pitching will be addressed.

No one expected the Jays to make the playoffs.... problem is no one expected the majority of the players to suffer such serious injuries.

[Berger]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Well the Yankees have had a fair amount of injuries themselves. They do have the ability to stock their roster with better depth which has let them survive. The Rays stayed afloat while dealing with injuries.

I hear all this hype about Jays prospects...yet what have they done in the majors? I certainly haven't seen anyone come up who looks like they'll be anything more than an average player so far.

Roy Halladay traded 3 seasons ago, what do the Jays have to show for it...two guys done for the season with injuries, and a guy who so far can't hit major league pitching. This after they kicked in money to trade him to the Phillies, and flipped the one guy who's somewhat been able to hit major league pitching.

Defend the Jays all you like, but right now they're looking like the only AL East team to not make the playoffs in the last 5 years. They knew damn well going into this season that they lacked depth in their rotation and the minor league guys have either got injured, or not been up to par. The Athletics have had injuries to their rotation too...yet they actually find a way to win.

I suspect that even if the Jays team had stayed healthy, they would still be 6-7 games behind the top 3 teams in the Division. They're more hype than substance in my books. Will be until they can play a full season and win more than 86 games.

The real "top prospects" are still in A ball. The three young pitchers Sanchez, Nicolino, and Syndaguard are three guys that all have "ace potential". All three put up amazing numbers this year and will be in AA next year. As we all know the jays aren't scared to call up guys from AA during the season (Hutchison, Alvarez). This year may look like a "step backwards" but all these AB's these young guys are getting will do wonders for their development. Hechavarria will most likely be in our infield somewhere next year (2nd base is my guess) so this taste of the big leagues will help him greatly for next year.

As for the injuries, yes the Jays have been hit hard, but every team has them. The Jays lack of depth in starting pitching definitely showed this year and that is one area that needs to be addressed in the off season. Maybe the Jays can bring back Marcum in the off season? He is a free agent and would be a good veteran to have back on the team. He would act as a stop gap until the young pitchers I mentioned earlier are mlb ready.

The players added to the bullpen from trades/call-ups have impressed me alot in the past month. The Jays bullpen looks much better now heading into next year and hopefully they can resign Lyon (free agent) and Oliver (our best pitcher this year IMO with a club option for next) will play another year. Add hopefully a healthy Santos to join Delabar, Jansenn, Houp, and Lincoln and our bullpen is actually respectable.

[Reanimate]

Who wants to bet we see Escobar moved this off season?

[KelVarnsen]

Happ is out for the year with a fractured right foot.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I hear all this hype about Jays prospects...yet what have they done in the majors? I certainly haven't seen anyone come up who looks like they'll be anything more than an average player so far.

Roy Halladay traded 3 seasons ago, what do the Jays have to show for it...two guys done for the season with injuries, and a guy who so far can't hit major league pitching. This after they kicked in money to trade him to the Phillies, and flipped the one guy who's somewhat been able to hit major league pitching.

Defend the Jays all you like, but right now they're looking like the only AL East team to not make the playoffs in the last 5 years. They knew damn well going into this season that they lacked depth in their rotation and the minor league guys have either got injured, or not been up to par. The Athletics have had injuries to their rotation too...yet they actually find a way to win.

I suspect that even if the Jays team had stayed healthy, they would still be 6-7 games behind the top 3 teams in the Division. They're more hype than substance in my books. Will be until they can play a full season and win more than 86 games.

As a Jay's fan, have to agree, tonnes of hype, very little substance. The individual stats of almost everyone is absolutely scary heading into next year, Escobar/Johnson, Brett Lawrie did more in his sep + call up than he's done this entire season, Lind came into the year with lots of doubts on him and hasn't shed any of it. So many questions in the rotation now, I think this year is a total write-off, 2013 will be the build up season and hopefully we contend for a Wild Card in 2014.

I think we also rushed a lot of our so called Blue Chips, Hech (despite his salary - which was a huge reason for it) shouldnt see the light of the MLB until Spring 2014, ditto Gose.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Berger

As for the injuries, yes the Jays have been hit hard, but every team has them. The Jays lack of depth in starting pitching definitely showed this year and that is one area that needs to be addressed in the off season.

The Jays' injuries are unique and not equivalent to 'what every team has'.

Jay's starting pitching depth in Spring Training:

Romero - healthy
Alvarez - mostly healthy
Morrow - missed half a season
Drabek - out for the year
McGowan - missed the whole year
Litsch - missed the whole year
Hutchinson - out for the year
Perez - out for the year
plus their closer missed the whole year.

How many teams have twelve legitimate options for MLB starting pitchers?

If you were a replacement-level free-agent SP during the offseason, why would you have signed with the Jays if AA had offered you a deal?

The Jays weren't a playoff team anyway, but the season was over when four of their five starting pitchers were pulled early in games (2 of them after only nine pitches) in a short span in June.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

As a Jay's fan, have to agree, tonnes of hype, very little substance.

In the first half of the season the Jays were a top 3 offense.

The Jays weren't a bad team (before the injuries) and next season's expectations should be high - at least mine are.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by Gozer

In the first half of the season the Jays were a top 3 offense.

The Jays weren't a bad team (before the injuries) and next season's expectations should be high - at least mine are.

I still don't know how they were a top 3 lol. Bautista didn't swing at a pitch in the strikezone until May, we didnt have a DH (if were calling Edwin our 1B) all year long, the epic battle for LF didnt materialize - none produced, I'm confident we all know Rajai Davis is now a #4 OF, very low production from the IF, Arencibia didnt get a chance to show a season of improvement, but being on pace for 30 Homers, makes me somewhat happy. Look at Lawrie, More Triples+Homers in 150 ab's last year vs. this season at 400! nearly the same amount of walks as well!!

Heading into next year I think, the bullpen is over talented, don't need Lyon back if everyone else can stay somewhat healthy and do near their projected contribution. In the rotation, you have Morrow back clearly as your new Ace. Romero is your default #2 and unless he starts dating Miss Canada, god knows which Ricky will show up. Chuck V can be your #3, but I worry about his ability to be a F/T starter, so that's a worry. Hendu will be your #4, hopefully we will see improvement. Spring Training will decide a 5th.

That leaves (ignoring the bullpen) 7 out of 9 hitters/spots in the order (and I'd like to see Bautista hit .270 min.) needing to up production considerably and 4 out of 5 spots in the rotation will need to improve their numbers, some dramatically, to reach a team record of .500 let alone WC consideration.

I have low expectations for next season and I'm not sure why at least 2 veteran relievers weren't dealt before the waiver deadline.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Good to see Gose string together a few good games. He had a wicked night last night.

[browna]

Romero's struggles are beyond laughable, that was done a few games ago. 13 straight losses in a row after tonight, for the mental makeup of a pitcher you have to start watching for signs of a nervous breakdown.

[nik-]

I always thought Romero was at top a number 2 man, which is why I hoped so strongly we got Darvish ... but now, I don't know what the hell to think. It's like a slow-motion Ankiel.

[Karl]

The Jays' offence has sucked so badly basically since the beginning of August.

Most of the guys on offense are now healthy, but so many of them have sucked huge donkey crap at the plate this season. The young guys I can live with, but Yunel and KJ have been hot steaming garbage hitting wise this year (notwithstanding KJ's hot start to the season).

EEE's had a great year, but he's been one of the few hitting brightspots, and even he's now started to cool off somewhat recently.

[Gozer]

Haven't watched much recently, but I've wondered if he has an arm injury.
When a pitcher loses an arm ligament, he might not feel pain but he will lose the ability to locate/aim his pitches.

If not, it's baffling.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Karl

The Jays' offence has sucked so badly basically since the beginning of August.

Most of the guys on offense are now healthy, but so many of them have sucked huge donkey crap at the plate this season.

The young guys I can live with, but Yunel and KJ have been hot steaming garbage hitting wise this year (notwithstanding KJ's hot start to the season).

EEE's had a great year, but he's been one of the few hitting brightspots, and even he's now started to cool off somewhat recently.

Players that have come back from Injuries will take a while to get back into game form.... Each of them were gone quite along time....

Not sure "E5" is healthy.....

As for their ShortStop and 2nd Baseman....

Would guess Kelly Johnson will be gone after the season is over...

Not sure about Escobar.....

[Caged Great]

AA said that basically all of C, 1B/DH (one of, not both), SS, 3B, CF, RF and the pen are locked in for next year. It's 2B 1B/DH LF and the rotation that need to be addressed.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

AA said that basically all of C, 1B/DH (one of, not both), SS, 3B, CF, RF and the pen are locked in for next year. It's 2B 1B/DH LF and the rotation that need to be addressed.

Thanks, that makes sense....

2nd -- Wonder if AA will trade for a player or promote the rookie from AAA.

1B/DH, --- AA needs to trade for a hitter. (Basically means E5 is either the DH next year or 1B)

LF -- Personally I hope Gose can win the job.

SP - Really need to add top end talent and depth.....

[Sylvanfan]

Who predicted Encarnacion would hit 40 this year? I think it's safe to say he far exceeded expectations this year. Could be more impressive had others stayed healthy too. Right now there isn't much else in terms of power threats in the Jays lineup, especially when Lawrie and Rasmus were out too.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flambers

LF -- Personally I hope Gose can win the job.

Gose isn't an option in LF (imo of course), not enough bat meanwhile defense (range + arm) are least relevant in LF.

I see Gose spending the year in AAA and as an injury replacement for Rasmus/Joey Bats.

LF should come in from outside the organization - Thames and Snider leaving suggests that Ant plans on adding a relatively cheap free agent. (Swisher?)
I don't think Sierra has earned the job without battling a veteran free agent.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Gose isn't an option in LF (imo of course), not enough bat meanwhile defense (range + arm) are least relevant in LF.

I see Gose spending the year in AAA and as an injury replacement for Rasmus/Joey Bats.

LF should come in from outside the organization - Thames and Snider leaving suggests that Ant plans on adding a relatively cheap free agent. (Swisher?)
I don't think Sierra has earned the job without battling a veteran free agent.

I would rather see the Jays go with Gose and add some one outside of the organization at 1st who has plus power.... Edwin can be the every day DH.

I really like Gose's speed.............as every time he is on base... it looks like he will steal. Its a big time distraction for the defense.......

As Sierra he is in the running as welll....