Lance Armstrong to be charged with doping?

[vektor]

Originally Posted by T@T

Question?

Besides Lance and his family, who truly gives a flying f***?

I was going to post this exactly. A guy made his blood have more red blood cells and it's a damned international travesty. Meanwhile homeless kids around the world die of starvation and disease and governments steal billions while inadvertently inflating their own currencies weakening the global economy. Worse things happen than this every 5 minutes and people want to drag up crap that happened years ago that effects no one, leave it alone and spend the energy actually trying to help make the world better.

damn you Lance Armstrong and your one testicle, how dare you!

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a sense of how have the winning times changed from the golden era of doping(1996 to 2006) thru to today?

Difficult to compare as the routes change from year to year as well their have been huge changes in both bikes helmets and skin suits during the period which also make comparisons difficult.

[troutman]

My Life With Lance Armstrong

I was Lance’s personal assistant for two years, during the height of his racing career. Do I think he cheated? Yep. But my real problem is something that diehard fans seem unable to grasp: the vengeful tactics he uses against people who tell the truth about him, on and off the bike.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...Armstrong.html

I might be sympathetic if I hadn’t worked for Armstrong, hadn’t seen him act so often based on a combination of self-interest and spite. Many of the episodes I discuss in what follows—including what I observed on the doping front—have been aired before, in depositions taken during the lawsuits. Some haven’t been heard anywhere, including the statements I made last year to Jeff Novitzky during the FDA investigator’s failed attempt to take Armstrong to federal court.

I’m telling my story now because millions of people still look up to Armstrong as a role model. That’s their choice, and I think it’s possible he can emerge from the wreckage and continue his second career as a fundraiser for cancer awareness. But he needs to come clean at this point, and the people who support him need to understand that he isn’t and never has been a victim. Here, too, Betsy Andreu put it best: “Until the truth is told, you’re not even dealing with reality.”

Lance Armstrong’s Secret Is Out

The news leaks about The Secret Race have vastly undersold its importance. Tyler Hamilton’s book is a historic, definitive indictment of cycling’s culture of doping during the Armstrong era.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

Here’s the reality: The Secret Race isn’t just a game changer for the Lance Armstrong myth. It’s the game ender. No one can read this book with an open mind and still credibly believe that Armstrong didn’t dope. It’s impossible. That doesn’t change the fact that he survived cancer and helped millions of people through Livestrong, but the myth of the clean-racing hero who came back from the dead is, well, dead.

The drugs are everywhere, and as Hamilton explains, Armstrong was not just another cyclist caught in the middle of an established drug culture—he was a pioneer pushing into uncharted territory. In this sense, the book destroys another myth: that everyone was doing it, so Armstrong was, in a weird way, just competing on a level playing field. There was no level playing field. With his connections to Michele Ferrari, the best dishonest doctor in the business, Armstrong was always “two years ahead of what everybody else was doing,” Hamilton writes. Even on the Postal squad there was a pecking order. Armstrong got the superior treatments.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by troutman

My Life With Lance Armstrong

The drugs are everywhere, and as Hamilton explains, Armstrong was not just another cyclist caught in the middle of an established drug culture—he was a pioneer pushing into uncharted territory. In this sense, the book destroys another myth: that everyone was doing it, so Armstrong was, in a weird way, just competing on a level playing field. There was no level playing field. With his connections to Michele Ferrari, the best dishonest doctor in the business, Armstrong was always “two years ahead of what everybody else was doing,” Hamilton writes. Even on the Postal squad there was a pecking order. Armstrong got the superior treatments.

This is an inane arguement, in a sport where everyone used PED's arguing that Armstrong was cheating because he was better at it is like argueing he was cheating because he had a better physio or trained more

[T@T]

Originally Posted by vektor

I was going to post this exactly. A guy made his blood have more red blood cells and it's a damned international travesty. Meanwhile homeless kids around the world die of starvation and disease and governments steal billions while inadvertently inflating their own currencies weakening the global economy. Worse things happen than this every 5 minutes and people want to drag up crap that happened years ago that effects no one, leave it alone and spend the energy actually trying to help make the world better.

damn you Lance Armstrong and your one testicle, how dare you!

Exactly and I'll add. While Lance Armstrong might have made his life a little better by somewhat "taking advantage" of his name, fact is his name raised a half a billion dollars that most likely saved many lives.

I tend to look at it this way, Everyone was doping.(at least the good ones) If he didn't he wouldn't have had the success and wouldn't have helped that many people with cancer. I could have taken 5x the amount of doping and never come close to him...dope or not he was a great athlete,I suspect if nobody took it he still would have been the greatest at his sport anyway

Double edge sword.

[troutman]

USADA chief previews Lance Armstrong report

The anti-doping agency says it will post findings on website later today. The evidence shows Lance Armstrong's involvement in doping 'beyond any doubt,' the USADA chief says.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...,5901743.story

In a statement emailed to news outlets, USADA Chief Executive Travis Tygart said, “The evidence shows beyond any doubt that” Armstrong’s “U.S. Postal Service Cycling team ran the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen.”

Tygart said USADA’s “reasoned decision” to pursue banning Armstrong before the cyclist clinched the penalty by withdrawing from the agency’s arbitration process will be sent to the International Cycling Union (UCI), the World Anti-Doping Agency and the World Triathlon Corp. on Wednesday.

The evidence, Tygart said, is in excess of 1,000 pages and features sworn testimony from 26 individuals, “including 15 riders with knowledge of the USPS team and its participants’ doping activities.”

Tygart praised the “courage” of 11 Armstrong teammates who came forward: Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Tyler Hamilton, George Hincapie, Floyd Landis, Levi Leipheimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie.

According to the statement, USADA gathered information that “includes direct documentary evidence including financial payments, emails, scientific data and laboratory test results that further prove the use, possession and distribution of performance-enhancing drugs by Lance Armstrong and confirm the disappointing truth about the deceptive activities of the USPS team, a team that received tens of millions of American taxpayer dollars in funding.”

[oilyfan]

This actually gives me faith that conspiracies cannot be kept for secret for very long. Not matter how tight the group is the truth will come out soon enough.

This is the argument I have with the 9-11, moon landing etc. crackpots

[sclitheroe]

George Hincapie admitted to doping today too, and if he's coming clean that's pretty much sufficient for me to make up my mind on all of the allegations flying around.

[albertGQ]

Who actually thought Lance was clean this whole time?

Not me

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Who actually thought Lance was clean this whole time?

Not me

I think a lot of people want him to be clean for the inspiring story of the athlete coming back from cancer to win all these races. Deep down most knowledgeable people probably suspected he wasn't though.

[Julio]

What makes me really sad with this today is that Michael Barry came out and admitted doping today.

[Northendzone]

price of livestrong gear at sportchek remains unchanged - so far.


for the record, i am dissapointed, but not surprised by this turn of events. perhaps lance's ultimate legacy is more about the livestrong foundation, although I am unclear exactly what the role of this foundation is and what the do with all the funds they raise/collect.

be interesting to see if lance ever does talk about this again.

[sevenarms]

If he wasn't such a jerk there'd be less people testifying against him.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Difficult to compare as the routes change from year to year as well their have been huge changes in both bikes helmets and skin suits during the period which also make comparisons difficult.

how much of a change could the helmets and suits make - increasing avg speed by 2kph maybe?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

price of livestrong gear at sportchek remains unchanged - so far.


for the record, i am dissapointed, but not surprised by this turn of events. perhaps lance's ultimate legacy is more about the livestrong foundation, although I am unclear exactly what the role of this foundation is and what the do with all the funds they raise/collect.

be interesting to see if lance ever does talk about this again.

Most of their money goes to "Awareness", AKA flying Lance around for fancy dinners, building his own brand for all the for-profit livestrong crap.

[habernac]

Hincapie, Leipheimer, VanDeVelde, Barry, Danielson..... quite the damning list. We'll see if his sponsors all stay on board now.

[bossy22]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

how much of a change could the helmets and suits make - increasing avg speed by 2kph maybe?

About a 2-5% less drag. This years tour there where a number of riders with helmet covers on. The traditional vented helmet is the least aerodynamic piece of equipment. Today's bikes, even from 5 years ago are faster. I had a Venge pro for a week, and my average speed went up 8kph compared with my cervelo rs. Aero bike, with aero wheels.

To me, you'd have to compare climbing, since aero gear won't make a difference. Look at the top times for the Alps D'Huez...usually at the end of an already brutal stage.

Andrew Ference did it in 1 hr and 3 minutes...not that a hockey player would be close, but just a tidbit.


Ascent times
Rank Time Name Year Nationality
1 37' 35" Marco Pantani 1997 Italy
2* 37' 36" Lance Armstrong 2004 United States
3 38' 00" Marco Pantani 1994 Italy
4 38' 01" Lance Armstrong 2001 United States
5 38' 04" Marco Pantani 1995 Italy
6 38' 23" Jan Ullrich 1997 Germany
7 38' 34" Floyd Landis 2006 United States
8 38' 35" Andreas Klöden 2006 Germany
9* 38' 37" Jan Ullrich 2004 Germany
10 39' 02" Richard Virenque 1997 France
11 39' 06" Iban Mayo 2003 Spain
12* 39' 17" Andreas Klöden 2004 Germany
13* 39' 21" Jose Azevedo 2004 Portugal
14 39' 28" Miguel Induráin 1995 Spain
15 39' 28" Alex Zülle 1995 Switzerland
16 39' 30" Bjarne Riis 1995 Denmark
17 39' 31" Carlos Sastre 2008 Spain
18 39' 44" Gianni Bugno 1991 Italy
19 39' 45" Miguel Induráin 1991 Spain
20 40' 00" Jan Ullrich 2001 Germany
21 40' 46" Fränk Schleck 2006 Luxembourg
22 40' 51" Alexander Vinokourov 2003 Kazakhstan
23 41' 18" Lance Armstrong 2003 United States
24 41' 21" Samuel Sánchez 2011 Spain
25 41' 30" Alberto Contador 2011 Spain
26 41' 46" Cadel Evans 2008 Australia
27 41' 50" Laurent Fignon 1989 France
28 41' 50" Luis Herrera 1987 Colombia
29 41' 57" Pierre Rolland 2011 France
30 42' 15" Pedro Delgado 1989 Spain
31 43' 12" Ryder Hesjedal 2011 Canada
32 43' 12" Thomas Danielson 2011 United States
33 45' 20" Gert-Jan Theunisse 1989 Netherlands
34 45' 22" Fausto Coppi 1952 Italy
35 48' 00" Bernard Hinault 1986 France

[Northendzone]

^ to me this data is kind of interesting, there is nobody in these top times over the past three years. Edit, you have to go to the bottom third of the list.

Presumably the usage of drugs has gone down in the last three years. Big leap I guess.

I am surprised that the aero stuff makes that big of a difference.

[Azure]

Outside of the 'testimonies' from the other riders, the other 'evidence' the USADA is pretty weak.

They say he avoided the tests, which sounds completely absurd. Wasn't the most tested athlete ever? I mean either the testing protocal was properly adhered too, or it wasn't. How can he avoid tests?

"The riders were advised to not answer the door if a tester came after they had used EPO," the report says.

Really? That is the best they can come up with? He didn't answer the door when the testers came? Why wasn't here reported?

Other avoidance measures included having a look-out team to spot approaching testers, and retiring to remote locations like Puigcerdà, Spain to make it almost impossible for testers to come out and test you.

Again, this screams of incompetence by whoever was in charge of the testing. Did Lance retire there? Pretty sure he lived and trained in Texas during the off season. Sounds like a lame excuse.

Then they claim he took undetectable drugs. Well, maybe he did, and maybe he didn't, but there is nothing but hearsay to say that he did. Last time I checked that didn't count as evidence in any first world country. Oh right, this is the USADA we are talking about.

All the 'evidence' they have is hearsay and allegations. Nothing concrete. People can believe what they want, but they can't 'prove' anything because he never actually tested positive for whatever reason.

Why should anyone believe any cyclist who has had their charges or allegations dropped in exchange for their 'eye-witness' account? I sure don't. Lance was a giant ######bag during his career, so I'm sure there are a lot of people who never liked him.

Still doesn't count as evidence though. The entire thing is 'weak.' And rather hilarious given how the USADA was trying to play it up.

[Regulator75]

Liestrong.