Many interesting things happening in the universe:
My brother-in-law showed me the awesome Star Walk app for his iPhone on the weekend. You can identify constellations, find the planets, and satellites:
The Curiosity rover hits the Martian atmosphere at 13,000 mph, 154 million miles miles from Earth. It's on its own for 7 minutes while it makes the most daring landing ever attempted on Mars. Join The Planetary Society, thousands of other space fans, 30 scientific experts and dozens of artists and performers at the one event unlike any other as we witness the adventure live.
This has got to be my favorite image off all time. An area the size of a tennis ball that was completely black was photographed and this is the image that immerged. In this area the size of a tennis ball, over 10,000 galaxies were uncovered. Within this image are some of the first galaxies ever created after the big bang (only a couple hundred million years old).
It's pretty amazing to think that every single one of those galaxies might be like ours, and within each of those galaxies there could be hundreds of millions of stars in each just like our own. And on one of those stars, there might be a planet orbiting it with life like ours. If you can wrap that around your head, then try to think that this was taken in an area the size of a tennis ball and just imagine how abundant life could possibly be around the universe.
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Huntingwhale For This Useful Post:
I think for humans existence has been very cyclic. Humans progress, then every few thousand years some sort of devastating natural phenomenon (ice age, global warming, meteor, etc) wipes out most of the population and the cycle starts again.
So forget species beating themselves to death before progressing to the point they are competant enough to build the technology to travel such massive distances in a lifetime. They are also having to live through never-ending natural catastrophe which i think we can assume is apparent in every nook/cranny of the ever changing universe.
I disagree with the cyclical nature. Yeah, ice-ages have wiped out civilizations, but it's also been a major driver of technological development. The paleolithic era, for example, was a period of intense technological progress, in part because of periods of extreme climate change (ice-ages) forced humans to develop technologies that would allow them to adapt to climate change. It's widely speculated that fire-usage became common during the ice-ages of the middle paleolithic. In a relatively static, comfortable environment that experienced no food shortage or climate change, it's arguable that it would have taken for longer for fire and tool usage to spread.
An extreme climate change event right now would potentially kill millions, alter societies and politics on a global scale, but it could very well drive technological innovations that increase the likelihood of us surviving not only on our own planet but also outside our goldilocks zone. We might emerge from such an event as a far more focused and efficient civilization that has the technologies that would allow us to start to look seriously at colonization within the solar system.
In the case of extraterrestrial civilizations, this is really what's important: not how long it takes them to develop long-distance space travel, but how long it takes them to develop the technologies to function outside their own goldilocks zone.
Last edited by octothorp; 07-30-2012 at 02:33 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to octothorp For This Useful Post:
I disagree with the cyclical nature. Yeah, ice-ages have wiped out civilizations, but it's also been a major driver of technological development. The paleolithic ice age, for example, was a period of intense technological progress, in part because of periods of extreme climate change (ice-ages) forced humans to develop technologies that would allow them to adapt to climate change. It's widely speculated that fire-usage became common during the ice-ages of the middle paleolithic. In a relatively static, comfortable environment that experienced no food shortage or climate change, it's arguable that it would have taken for longer for fire and tool usage to spread.
An extreme climate change event right now would potentially kill millions, alter societies and politics on a global scale, but it could very well drive technological innovations that increase the likelihood of us surviving not only on our own planet but also outside our goldilocks zone. We might emerge from such an event as a far more focused and efficient civilization that has the technologies that would allow us to start to look seriously at colonization within the solar system.
In the case of extraterrestrial civilizations, this is really what's important: not how long it takes them to develop long-distance space travel, but how long it takes them to develop the technologies to function outside their own goldilocks zone.
This reminds me of a book I read years ago, "The Ingenuity Gap" by Thomas Homer-Dixon.. At the time it was pretty illuminating for me and I think it's still pretty relevent. He talks a lot about the growing complexity of society (techologically, economically etc) leading to complex issues (climate change, international financial crises...) and how humanity historically has consistently been capable of amazing "ingenuity" to overcome these issues. Speculating to some degree that we are nearing a time where the gap between our capabilities and the scope of the issues we are creating is becoming disturbingly large.
Hawking himself thinks we've done irrepairable damage to our planet... That scares the bejeezus out of me.
This has got to be my favorite image off all time. An area the size of a tennis ball that was completely black was photographed and this is the image that immerged. In this area the size of a tennis ball, over 10,000 galaxies were uncovered. Within this image are some of the first galaxies ever created after the big bang (only a couple hundred million years old).
It's pretty amazing to think that every single one of those galaxies might be like ours, and within each of those galaxies there could be hundreds of millions of stars in each just like our own. And on one of those stars, there might be a planet orbiting it with life like ours. If you can wrap that around your head, then try to think that this was taken in an area the size of a tennis ball and just imagine how abundant life could possibly be around the universe.
I'm of the belief that they aren't even close to the first galaxies but rather the among the first that our primitive telescopes can see, I think the age of the universe will get far older as our technology gets more advanced as well. I wouldn't even be surprized that the "big bang" as we understand it is debunked as well.
BTW, your spoiler pic was posted in post #1 and explained.
Quote:
It started out as a simple experiment, a shot in the dark if you will (pun intended). The plan was to point the Hubble Space Telescope at a completely dark patch in the sky (covering the area of about a pinhead held at arm's length) for an exposure of just under a million seconds across ~two weeks. Every dot, spot, and wedge in that picture is a galaxy - 10,000 of them in all! Keep in mind that the average galaxy has between 10,000,000 and 1,000,000,000,000 stars.
This has got to be my favorite image off all time. An area the size of a tennis ball that was completely black was photographed and this is the image that immerged. In this area the size of a tennis ball, over 10,000 galaxies were uncovered. Within this image are some of the first galaxies ever created after the big bang (only a couple hundred million years old).
It's pretty amazing to think that every single one of those galaxies might be like ours, and within each of those galaxies there could be hundreds of millions of stars in each just like our own. And on one of those stars, there might be a planet orbiting it with life like ours. If you can wrap that around your head, then try to think that this was taken in an area the size of a tennis ball and just imagine how abundant life could possibly be around the universe.
Tdarnell did an excellent video on this mind blowing image.
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
Last edited by Thor; 07-31-2012 at 12:13 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to Thor For This Useful Post:
Stephen Hawking's babbled about this from time to time. He figures that it's nearly impossible that there is not extraterrestrial life out there in some form, and likely in many forms (interestingly enough, he also advises that we avoid contact with any such life).
The chance of actually encountering intelligent life from another solar system/galaxy seems so immensely remote. With higher intelligence come more varied and advanced methods of self-destruction; on this planet alone we already deal with nuclear bombs, bio-weapons, etc. and yet haven't even begun to scratch the surface of exploration outside our own planetary realm. A hypothetical species of intelligent beings from elsewhere who could actually reach us before we reach them could very well be a near impossibility if for no other reason than the fact that they'd likely have destroyed themselves already somewhere upon the path of advancement, as we already almost have on so many occasions.
Fun conjecture, though...
Just my opinion but even if an extremely more intellegent alien somehow could travel at the speed of light the possibilitys of them reaching earth would be slim to none.
1) can they live thousands of years in order to make the trip even at light speed?
2) could they find us?
3) why would they bother?
I would guess a supreme being on earths future could figure out time travel before an alien from another star system could visit us.
I wouldn't even be surprized that the "big bang" as we understand it is debunked as well.
What about it, in particular, do you think is going to be debunked? The majority of cosmologists don't subscribe to the standard big bang theory as it is, but instead theories that have used it as a foundation, inflationary theory being a major one. Surely you don't believe the universe has no beginning? Olber's paradox would seem to preclude that.
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
Just my opinion but even if an extremely more intellegent alien somehow could travel at the speed of light the possibilitys of them reaching earth would be slim to none.
1) can they live thousands of years in order to make the trip even at light speed?
2) could they find us?
3) why would they bother?
I would guess a supreme being on earths future could figure out time travel before an alien from another star system could visit us.
One imaginative science fiction short story I read had an Earth-made probe travelling for thousands of years with sperm and eggs cryogenically frozen then upon reaching a habital world, the ship auto lands and machinery/computers essentially grows and educates the young human children.
That's assuming the light barrier can't be surmounted.
Cowperson
__________________
Dear Lord, help me to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am. - Anonymous
Just my opinion but even if an extremely more intellegent alien somehow could travel at the speed of light the possibilitys of them reaching earth would be slim to none.
1) can they live thousands of years in order to make the trip even at light speed?
2) could they find us?
3) why would they bother?
I would guess a supreme being on earths future could figure out time travel before an alien from another star system could visit us.
that's all assuming speed of light is the fastest method between two points, which may not be true.
The 100 Year Starship™ will make the capability of human travel beyond our solar system to another star a reality over the next 100 years. 100YSS™ will embark on a journey across time and space … If my language is dramatic, it is because this project is monumental. And our team is both invigorated and sobered by the confidence DARPA has in us to make interstellar flight a reality.
Mission Statement
100 Year Starship will pursue national and global initiatives, and galvanize public and private leadership and grassroots support, to assure that human travel beyond our solar system and to another star can be a reality within the next century. 100 Year Starship will unreservedly dedicate itself to identifying and pushing the radical leaps in knowledge and technology needed to achieve interstellar flight while pioneering and transforming breakthrough applications to enhance the quality of life on earth. We will actively include the broadest swath of people in understanding, shaping, and implementing our mission.
What about it, in particular, do you think is going to be debunked? The majority of cosmologists don't subscribe to the standard big bang theory as it is, but instead theories that have used it as a foundation, inflationary theory being a major one. Surely you don't believe the universe has no beginning? Olber's paradox would seem to preclude that.
I didn't know that, seems every program I see they conclude the big bang started as an extremely hot and dense particle smaller than an atom that basicly blew up 13.7 billion years ago and expanded to what we see today.
I'm far from a scientist but my pea brain just can't except some of this.
Where did the dense particle come from?
How old was it before it popped?
If hubble can see a galaxy 13.7 billion L-years away surely the big bang didn't instantly create galaxys...don't they take billions of years to form themselfs? Hubble could be looking at a galaxy 13.7 L-years away that formed 20 billion years earlier.
Would have preferred he just stayed positive and focused on what is awesome about the Universe as opposed to going all "campaign ad" for half the video.
But I guess it is about saving his soul, so whatever.
