Counterfeit Concert Tickets at Garth Brooks last nite.

[dubc80]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Did anybody ever do an investigation into Ticketmaster?

When 15,322 tickets sell out in 58 seconds something's not right. Sounds to me like Ticketmaster sold big blocks of tickets to "special people" before they went on sale to the general public.. Something sure sounded fishy when this happened.

Yup, this is becoming a big problem. Something is up.

With the internet and sites like Stubhub, I bet we're also competing with people who are from outside the local market who have absolutely no interest in attending the show or event. I bet there are people/companies out there who are constantly on the look-out for high profile events throughout the world strictly for scalping purposes.

[East Coast Flame]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

Unless you're talking about some collusion between ticketmaster and scalpers how is buying a ticket to something with the plan of selling it for a profit unethical?

Ticketmaster owns a ticket reselling site, Ticketsnow. What an absolute scam.

[The Goon]

Hopefully somebody recognizes that guy - with those eyebrows, he'd be hard to miss.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Before the tickets even went on sale, almost 5,000 of them were spoken for to corporate sponsors, Flames season ticket holders and radio/promotional events. And lets be real, would anyone be surprised if 500,000 people or more tried to get tickets for this event? I don't think this was some Ticketmaster con (though believe me I have no love for them), simply put there were not enough controls to prevent scalpers from getting a large portion of tickets. Once scammers heard tickets were going for 10 times or more than face value, you knew they'd be getting in on the act as well.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Serious questions:

Why are the people who scalp tickets greedy, sleazy and devouring human decency? Is it any different than the tour selling a shirt for $60 inside the concert or the Dome charging $10 for a beer? They have a captive audience and could sell it cheaper, but they choose to sell it for more. One could argue the kids pulling at their parents wills and all the advertising showing how awesome drinking is are unethical. Are the ethics inside the Dome different from the ones outside the Dome?

T-shirt analogy doesn't work. It's a sanctioned group approved by the stadium to be selling shirts, and they're not reselling something a consumer has already bought (in the "new" purchase sense of the word - not talking about wholesalers and such).

Again, I'm not arguing the economics behind the "free market" of scalping; I'm complaining about the schmucks that come out of the woodwork to #### over honest people simply because they can. Check out Olao32's post - this is exactly what I'm talking about. No chance for recourse, no good sammaritan effort, no warranty, nothing.

Again, the "free market" economics works as it should - but it just brings out the worst in people and that's my point. Not every case is like this though. I understand the "bought one too many arguement". But that's not what my gripes are here clearly.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Before the tickets even went on sale, almost 5,000 of them were spoken for to corporate sponsors, Flames season ticket holders and radio/promotional events. And lets be real, would anyone be surprised if 500,000 people or more tried to get tickets for this event? I don't think this was some Ticketmaster con (though believe me I have no love for them), simply put there were not enough controls to prevent scalpers from getting a large portion of tickets. Once scammers heard tickets were going for 10 times or more than face value, you knew they'd be getting in on the act as well.

People were saying that 5 minutes after the sale, there were tickets for re-sale online at 10 to 20 times the original price.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by Olao32

I was unfortunately one of the dumb asses who was scammed last night. I am a big country music fan, and my wife is a huge Garth Brooks fan. Unfortunately during regular ticket sales we were not successful via Ticketmaster, so yesterday morning I decided screw it, I am going to surprise her with some tickets and purchased them via kijiji. Lots of money yes, but it it’s not like an everyday concert. She was ecstatic.

The tickets were hard copy and looked legit in every way. They even got me through the gates at the park, scanned through no problem...

Then at the door of the dome, nada "please go to the ticket counter and talk to a representative". I knew at that moment I was SOL. And I felt like a major jackass because the surprise just didn’t turn out as planned.

When I went down to the ticket office the lady pointed me to a crowd in the corner with some CPS officers taking statements. Doubt they will find him but you never know...

Apparently, this same guy did this to many different people. Same story, same phone number, add on kijiji etc. One of the people who purchased from him even took a picture (and this genius let her). So, this is one of the pricks behind the scam if you recognize him, please let me know.

I’ve seen some pretty crazy stuff on CP, wouldn't surprise me if someone actually recognized him or was able to track this POS down.

I've posted this on beyond as well - they have a pretty good track record of finding people haha

[sclitheroe]

You can't complain about scalping if your retirement savings are held in stocks or mutual funds. It's the same economic model; people buy shares of the concert, and some of those people choose to resell those shares at prices the market will bear.

Fake tickets are a shame, and I feel bad for people that lost money though. That's no fun.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by ken0042

There's your difference. There is a very finite number of tickets; however there are almost unlimited options for places to buy pop.

As for the market setting the price, did demand go up because the people buying the tickets originally planned on scalping them? Sure- some people who bought their tickets through proper channels went to see the show. But how many people buy tickets just to re-sell them? Part of my issue with scalping is I believe they are creating a false sense of demand. Sure- there are likely more than 20,000 people who would be willing to see Garth Brooks for $65. But if 10,000 of those tickets fall into the hands of scalpers- now the demand has artificially increased.

In my opinion, I don't think demand is artificially increased with people buying only to scalp the tickets. If anything, it decreases it. Assume there are 20,000 tickets to a show at $50 each and there are 40,000 people who are wanting to go at that price. Half of the tickets go to scalpers. There are now 30,000 people wanting 10,000 tickets. Even before the scalpers got the tickets, excess demand will drive the price up. Now that there are 3 times as many people as tickets, price will go up. As price does up, demand will go down. If the prices are reaching $500 per ticket, demand decreases almost to nil. The only people who will buy at this price are the rich people or the die hards. These people are likely unaffected by the price and would have bought anyways.

Tickets aren't an investment to the end consumer. Once the concert is over, you can't do anything with the ticket, you just have the experience. When the prices start increasing rapidly, people will make decisions to do other things with their money, such as buy the CD, save it, whatever, etc. It's not like a stock where people get caught up in the hype and increased prices and buy it because they think they can get rich off of it. I don't see how people buying tickets to resell them causes increased demand to go to the show. It simply creates a second or third point of sale to which the end consumer needs to go through. If the promoter had the tickets priced high enough, or used various methods to allow only certain people in (I really like the Dutch auction way), the concert still ends up with about the same people, with about the same prices, but the money goes to the people directly involved with the show.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

T-shirt analogy doesn't work. It's a sanctioned group approved by the stadium to be selling shirts, and they're not reselling something a consumer has already bought (in the "new" purchase sense of the word - not talking about wholesalers and such).

Again, I'm not arguing the economics behind the "free market" of scalping; I'm complaining about the schmucks that come out of the woodwork to #### over honest people simply because they can. Check out Olao32's post - this is exactly what I'm talking about. No chance for recourse, no good sammaritan effort, no warranty, nothing.

Again, the "free market" economics works as it should - but it just brings out the worst in people and that's my point. Not every case is like this though. I understand the "bought one too many arguement". But that's not what my gripes are here clearly.

It sucks for Ola032. I feel terrible for everyone who bought tickets in good faith and were scammed. That being said, there is no way I would buy tickets on kijiji or craigslist. I don't mind spending more to get piece of mind by going to sites like StubHub. I don't buy jerseys on eBay for the same reason. They may be cheaper, but there is a high chance you're getting scammed.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The obvious problem with the Dutch Auction model is of course it favors the wealthy, so they'll obviously always get the best tickets which will only serve to piss off the average fan. I think the credit card at the door method is truly the best method out there. Yes it makes it very difficult to buy tickets for others as a surprise gift, but whats worse than buying someone a surprise ticket that turns out to be a fake? And if for instance you wanted to buy it as a gift, make it so you can go pick up tickets, but the tickets are "marked" as only being able to be used by the receiver of the gift.

[woob]

Originally Posted by Olao32

I was unfortunately one of the dumb asses who was scammed last night. I am a big country music fan, and my wife is a huge Garth Brooks fan. Unfortunately during regular ticket sales we were not successful via Ticketmaster, so yesterday morning I decided screw it, I am going to surprise her with some tickets and purchased them via kijiji. Lots of money yes, but it it’s not like an everyday concert. She was ecstatic.

Did you get in after all?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

It sucks for Ola032. I feel terrible for everyone who bought tickets in good faith and were scammed. That being said, there is no way I would buy tickets on kijiji or craigslist. I don't mind spending more to get piece of mind by going to sites like StubHub. I don't buy jerseys on eBay for the same reason. They may be cheaper, but there is a high chance you're getting scammed.

I have to agree with this. Stubhub gets you a pretty good guarantee on legitimacy. If you're already paying over face, might as well make sure you're at least going to get in.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ken0042

There's your difference. There is a very finite number of tickets; however there are almost unlimited options for places to buy pop.

As for the market setting the price, did demand go up because the people buying the tickets originally planned on scalping them? Sure- some people who bought their tickets through proper channels went to see the show. But how many people buy tickets just to re-sell them? Part of my issue with scalping is I believe they are creating a false sense of demand. Sure- there are likely more than 20,000 people who would be willing to see Garth Brooks for $65. But if 10,000 of those tickets fall into the hands of scalpers- now the demand has artificially increased.

Overall demand doesn't change because of scalpers. The number of people wanting to see a show is constant. And the tickets expire after the concert so there is no value in an empty seat being at the concert so all of the tickets should be sold prior to the concert starting. Therefore the supply and the demand competing for that supply doesn't change.

What does change is the peak demand. Right after tickets are sold people will panic and buy whatever they can get their hands on. As the show approaches the price usaully becomes more reasonable as the risk of hanging on to the tickets becomes greater. I think Heritage classic was a good example as you could buy face value seats the day of quite easily and when they went on sale they were double face.

In the end demand is constant and last night there was demand for at least 100,000 tickets, probably more, so nothing was going to make everyone happy.

[dubc80]

I think lots of scalpers are getting screwed on UFC 149 tickets. Lots available for face and under face value now because of the card change.
LOL.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Unless Garth played in a venue with 100,000+ people, there was always going to be a lot of people disappointed. Christ he sold out 3 shows in 1996 and there's now 400,000 more people living here. He no doubt could have played every night of Stampede and sold out every show. This was simply a unique set of circumstances that was certainly going to leave substantially more people upset than satisfied.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by dubc80

I think lots of scalpers are getting screwed on UFC 149 tickets. Lots available for face and under face value now because of the card change.
LOL.

I was gonna mention that as well. With the possible exception of some floor or club seats there's nobody making money of that card in the secondary market. I'm a little tempted to go down to the dome on the night of the event and low ball em just to see what they'll take at that point.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dubc80

Depends on the type of scalper though.

If the scalper is getting the tickets through illegitimate methods (corrupt promoters, online script programs, etc) then yes, I agree with you.

If it's an ordinary citizen who happened to click re-fresh at Ticketmaster a couple seconds faster than you and decides to sell it for market value which happens to be above face value, I'm ok with it.

Scalping has allowed me to go to certain events which were sold out, or that I was too late to get tickets for. You snooze, you lose. If I want to go, I'm ok with paying a premium.

It's unethical because it is making money off other people's labour and screwing with someone's business.

When an event holder decides to set a price for their tickets, there is more behind the decision than just making the most money they can at that moment in time.

There are other things to consider, such as what competetors are charging. You want to remain competetive and don't want potential "new" customers to be priced out. Setting the price lower than maximum market value is often an investment and a smart way to do business.

Take for example NHL hockey. It is to the benefit of the franchises to have some tickets available to lower and middle income customers, for people to be able to afford to bring children, and for curious non-fans who might not spend a lot, but could be hooked if they get a chance for a low price. It's essential for a growing and maintaining a future fanbase.

When scalpers buy tickets and mark-them up, they are huritng the businesses.

[darklord700]

Always ask for hard copy tickets when buying from Kijiji. Hard tickets as least take some effort to forge and those e tickets can be resold many times and only the first one gets in.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Take for example NHL hockey. It is to the benefit of the franchises to have some tickets available to lower and middle income customers, for people to be able to afford to bring children, and for curious non-fans who might not spend a lot, but could be hooked if they get a chance for a low price. It's essential for a growing and maintaining a future fanbase.

For some NHL markets, there will always be more fans than seats, and thus the goal is to price to what the market will bear to ensure every single ticket is sold out. Why would Toronto or Montreal charge a penny less for their tickets when they sell out every night. The variable pricing on premium games at the Dome reflects this too - why keep prices the same for premium games when you know you can charge more for them (or gouge fans into buying game packs that include the one game they want to see), and still ensure a sell out.

Similarly for Garth Brooks - I'm pretty sure he's in the category of musicians that will sell out every date they perform, over the remaining span of his career. Why would they price to build new fans? They don't need them in the timeframe remaining on the product.