General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by dino7c

actually it would give owners more leverage when they cry poor

I doubt the players union would but that. Quebec was ready to make reno's to the collisuim for next year. Now it might be to late. That's Bettmans fault for letting this drag on so long.

Also how can owners cry poor with some of these contracts that have been handed out in the last couple of days. Minni just gave close to $50 million in bonuses today.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

As soon as you hear the words "Scott Morrison said...", you can safely dismiss whatever follows as complete bollocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[troutman]

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt
An organizer behind #Glendale sales tax initiative tells me her group delivered 375 petitions with 4,138 signatures to the city clerk.

David Shoalts ‏@dshoalts
A petition to overturn a city sales tax increase intended to fund the Phoenix Coyotes arena lease was just delivered to Glendale officials.


Looks like sales tax referendum will be on the November ballot.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by troutman

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt
An organizer behind #Glendale sales tax initiative tells me her group delivered 375 petitions with 4,138 signatures to the city clerk.

David Shoalts ‏@dshoalts
A petition to overturn a city sales tax increase intended to fund the Phoenix Coyotes arena lease was just delivered to Glendale officials.


Looks like sales tax referendum will be on the November ballot.

cant be good for nhl phoenix. im sure the usual suspects will be here shortly to "debunk" this tho

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

cant be good for nhl phoenix. im sure the usual suspects will be here shortly to "debunk" this tho

The 'usual suspects' continue to stick around to pile on, so I think Coyote supporters like Bouw, who actually has a stake in how things turn out, deserve to have their views heard.

Winnipeg's got its hockey team, why the heck do you care what happens with the Coyotes? I don't get the hatred and pettiness.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

cant be good for nhl phoenix. im sure the usual suspects will be here shortly to "debunk" this tho

The "usual suspects" attempt to look at the issue intelligently and provide rational analysis. Something that is a complete rarity on this thread because it is overrun by people like you.

Now, assuming the petition is ratified, it does present a serious problem for the team's future in Phoenix. As with many of these things, it will come down to which side can demonize the other the best - regardless of the actual facts, cause god knows, nobody really knows what they are. And in this case, I am putting my money on the Goldwater side. The outgoing council is going to need an overwhelming level of support, because even moderate support would be enough for the new council to feel free to squash the lease if it decides that is best.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by troutman

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt
An organizer behind #Glendale sales tax initiative tells me her group delivered 375 petitions with 4,138 signatures to the city clerk.

David Shoalts ‏@dshoalts
A petition to overturn a city sales tax increase intended to fund the Phoenix Coyotes arena lease was just delivered to Glendale officials.


Looks like sales tax referendum will be on the November ballot.

That number seems ridiculously high given where they were two weeks ago. Let's see how it all shakes down and how many signatures say "Abraham Lincoln".

[Resolute 14]

"The dead have risen, and they are voting republican!"

The sudden jump surprised me too, but it is possible that the earlier quotes were simply the accomplishments of one group of many.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The "usual suspects" attempt to look at the issue intelligently and provide rational analysis. Something that is a complete rarity on this thread because it is overrun by people like you.

Now, assuming the petition is ratified, it does present a serious problem for the team's future in Phoenix. As with many of these things, it will come down to which side can demonize the other the best - regardless of the actual facts, cause god knows, nobody really knows what they are. And in this case, I am putting my money on the Goldwater side. The outgoing council is going to need an overwhelming level of support, because even moderate support would be enough for the new council to feel free to squash the lease if it decides that is best.

If this thing goes to the ballot, it's over.

(a) When has a voting public ever voted for a sales tax increase?

(b) There will be enough of a council turnover that they're not going to be able to push things through any longer

(c) This whole thing might put a massive chill on Jamison's recruiting ability anyway.

(d) Even if it does miraculously pass and they get a favourable council, Jamison will then be tasked to find investors during the lockout and with no Glendale $25 million cushion to keep the NHL patient.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

The 'usual suspects' continue to stick around to pile on, so I think Coyote supporters like Bouw, who actually has a stake in how things turn out, deserve to have their views heard.

Winnipeg's got its hockey team, why the heck do you care what happens with the Coyotes? I don't get the hatred and pettiness.

Where do you get hatred? I simply want this stupid mess over and hockey in Quebec not Phoenix, in a city where people want it.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

The 'usual suspects' continue to stick around to pile on, so I think Coyote supporters like Bouw, who actually has a stake in how things turn out, deserve to have their views heard.

Winnipeg's got its hockey team, why the heck do you care what happens with the Coyotes? I don't get the hatred and pettiness.

I have no ill feelings for Phoenix or it's fans, it's that the NHL just isn't working in Phoenix and they've had 16 years to get it together and haven't been able to do it. I'd like to see them go where they are appreciated.

[landshark]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

That number seems ridiculously high given where they were two weeks ago. Let's see how it all shakes down and how many signatures say "Abraham Lincoln".

That 700 number that was passed about was the total of just two people collecting sigs - at the time the guy said that there were 40 other people collecting sigs and he had no way of knowing how many there were total at that time.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

If this thing goes to the ballot, it's over.

(a) When has a voting public ever voted for a sales tax increase?

(b) There will be enough of a council turnover that they're not going to be able to push things through any longer

(c) This whole thing might put a massive chill on Jamison's recruiting ability anyway.

(d) Even if it does miraculously pass and they get a favourable council, Jamison will then be tasked to find investors during the lockout and with no Glendale $25 million cushion to keep the NHL patient.

Agreed on all points, save perhaps C. If the referendum somehow passes with a large majority and the lease gets signed, the investors may come. may. The NHL is already stuck for this season, imo, so the sale pretty much has until the end of winter to complete before the NHL pulls the plug.

But the rest is why I said at the start that if this lease doesn't get ratified, the Coyotes are done.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by landshark

That 700 number that was passed about was the total of just two people collecting sigs - at the time the guy said that there were 40 other people collecting sigs and he had no way of knowing how many there were total at that time.

Did not know that. Doesn't it seem like ridiculous posturing that they kept going back and forth about the signature collection deadline if it was going this well all along?

[afc wimbledon]

How hard can it be to get Arizona voters to sign a petition demanding the goverment stop funding a what is all but a welfare program for immigrant workers coming in from over the border?

in this case Canadians mostly.

[troutman]

There is some confusion here (understandably).

There are two groups gathers signatures for two different petitions. There is the petition by the two GWI complainants, challenging the lease agreement. There is another petition by business leaders looking to challenge the increased sales tax.

The former had 700 signatures, and may have had 1200 a day or so ago. The target is 1800, and the deadline is either the 8th or the 15th.

The latter has over 4000 signatures, and will surely be on the November ballot. Without the increased sales tax, Glendale would have to look elsewhere to cover the AMF.

Aside from these petitions, the taxpayers could also apply for a special election (apart from the November ballot).

[troutman]

Glendale taxpayers threaten to torpedo Coyotes sale


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4393492/

However, since Jamison made it clear he needs the arena lease to complete his purchase of the team, this leaves Bettman and Daly with some unpleasant options.

The first is to continue the NHL’s ownership of the Coyotes for one more year, which means paying for losses that could be more than $40-million. But there will likely be no $25-million payment from Glendale to offset the losses.

In the last two years, the city agreed to pay $50-million to the NHL to cover some of the losses but budget woes left Glendale $5-million short of this year’s payment. Frisoni said there has been no discussion of another payment if the NHL can’t sell the team.

Bettman has long refused to consider moving the Coyotes. Doing so now would be difficult but not impossible. But the only candidate with an arena that could be whipped into NHL shape quickly is Quebec City and Bettman has never shown enthusiasm for that move.

In some NHL circles, a more drastic solution is envisioned. The Coyotes could simply be folded, its 23 players sent to other NHL teams through a dispersal draft and the league would operate with 29 teams next season.

This would allow the NHL to collect expansion fees of $100-million or more each from Seattle and Quebec City, the top candidates for NHL teams, rather than a single relocation fee of $60-million or so for the Coyotes. That is a gain of at least $140-million.

However, this would create legal headaches with lenders holding the Coyotes franchise as collateral and probably the NHL Players’ Association. So the NHL’s longest limbo dance will continue for now but a nasty choice could be coming quickly.

[Vulcan]

If they fold, they will still be out the $140M the NHL paid for the Coyotes, so there is no gain in folding them.

If Gary folds them, he's an even bigger tool than I thought.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

If they fold, they will still be out the $140M the NHL paid for the Coyotes, so there is no gain in folding them.

It creates a natural void in the NHL which a $300 million expansion team could fill.

[Vulcan]

[QUOTE=Sidney Crosby's Hat;3783586]It creates a natural void in the NHL which a $300 million expansion team could fill.[QUOTE]

Really $300M, I was thinking more like $200M.