Texas dad beats 4-year-old daughter's alleged attacker to death

[Senator Clay Davis]

While I did previous say I can't see a jury convicting him, MarchHare is 100% correct. I mean OJ and Casey Anthony were both definitely going to get convicted and look how that turned out. The jury system is unpredictable. I also think a plea will depend on what the victims family wants. If they push hard and want a murder or manslaughter charge then it absolutely can go to trial. But they might want the quick plea and minimum sentence as well. Obviously until more details come out about this we're all speculating at this point.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by First Lady

tussery previously posted "or (B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery."

So "prevent" and "imminent" give it a different light.

His post here: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...4&postcount=54

Yes, I saw that post. tussery also said this, though:

Now the point where it becomes an issue is how much force was required to prevent the sexual assault. If a punch to the face is enough to stop the incident then that is where it should end. Going beyond that point and murdering the person is after they have stopped is against the law.

Was beating the guy to death necessary to stop the crime in progress or would lesser force have sufficed? I'm inclined to think the latter.

[REDVAN]

My uncle lives in Texas, and on the news one night there was a very similar case.

The sheriff (maybe DA or something) was being asked why there were no charges in a shooting death when they KNEW who the culprit was. The sheriff's response: "some people just need killin'"

Very similar here. And I agree. However, I would hope these incidents are fully investigated before any such final judgement is made.

[sun]

A slap on the wrist is probably too severe a punishment since his fists probably hurt like a son of a bitch as it is.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

People keep saying this like it's a fait accompli, but I'm not so sure. If the DA decides to charge him, it appears as though the state has a very strong case. There's no question that he killed the molester. The defense would have to show that the use of lethal force was necessary to end the immediate action of sexual abuse, and that seems like a tough sell to me.

The fact that there existed strong mitigating factors shouldn't influence the guilty/not-guilty decision that the jury delivers, but it absolutely would influence the sentence the judge chooses to impose.

I'd be very surprised if this goes to trial, though. The most likely outcome will be a guilty plea in exchange for the most lenient sentence the state can offer.

Perhaps it shouldn't, but it sure as hell would.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Yes, I saw that post. tussery also said this, though:

Was beating the guy to death necessary to stop the crime in progress or would lesser force have sufficed? I'm inclined to think the latter.

A rational mind could think that through.

A man who's son came running for help for his sister, then finds a some guy on top of her, she's screaming and likely bleeding from god knows where....
... yeah, I think I could even find the strength to beat the pulp out of him. And I wouldn't be thinking "oh ####, am I going too far?"

[GGG]

Whats interesting is that the Texas law as written permits letal force. It does not say you must use a reasonable amount of force or the least amount of force required. The law as written seems to indicate that if the person is in the act you can shoot them in the back without warning. Case law may define this better but the law seems to allow the use of lethal force regardless of circumstance. So provided the assault can be verified i dont think he can be charged.

Maybe if he beat him on the ground but anything less than that i think is permitted

( of course i am just playing lawyer here and have no real knowledge other than this thread)

[WhiteTiger]

Hm, I can see where probation would be useful here. It's unlikely that this father is going to roam the streets killing folks. I don't think he should get off scott free (sends the wrong message about 'vigilante justice') but...extreme mitigating circumstances here.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

Hm, I can see where probation would be useful here. It's unlikely that this father is going to roam the streets killing folks. I don't think he should get off scott free (sends the wrong message about 'vigilante justice') but...extreme mitigating circumstances here.

Not directed at you in particular but how is this vigilante justice?

[Coys1882]

I'll admit I didn't read the story because it might make me angry and I skimmed a lot of the replies thus far; but has anyone mentioned that since this dude is dead there is no other proof other than a 4 yr old child to back up why he beat this man to death? Cops still have a lot of work to do, making sure money wasn't owed - wife wasn't sleeping with the help or something.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by GGG

Not directed at you in particular but how is this vigilante justice?

Well, he DID take the law into his own hands (reasonably so, in my personal opinion) but the problem I see is that it would allow a slippery slope. Where does the line get drawn, is more my thing with this.

[edslunch]

This thread disturbs me. I have No sympathy for the rapist and total sympathy for the girl and her father - they both have some serious s### to deal with. I can understand his rage and how he crossed the line to killing whether accidental or intentional. I assume the justice system will deal with fairly and lightly as they should.

But the reaction of people here saying the perp deserved to die....NO ONE deserves to die. When we start picking and choosing who deserves life and death we lower ourselves as a society. I'm not shedding any tears at the scum's death but I'm also not cheering it like some of the mob here.

[Clarkey]

I know what I'd do.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by GGG

Not directed at you in particular but how is this vigilante justice?

Carrying out your own brand of justice with disregard to the legal system; what is vigilante justice if not this?

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by edslunch

This thread disturbs me. I have No sympathy for the rapist and total sympathy for the girl and her father - they both have some serious s### to deal with. I can understand his rage and how he crossed the line to killing whether accidental or intentional. I assume the justice system will deal with fairly and lightly as they should.

But the reaction of people here saying the perp deserved to die....NO ONE deserves to die. When we start picking and choosing who deserves life and death we lower ourselves as a society. I'm not shedding any tears at the scum's death but I'm also not cheering it like some of the mob here.

Meh, you sexually assault children (really, sexually assaulting anyone), you immediately forfeit your right to live IMO.

[tussery]

Originally Posted by GGG

Whats interesting is that the Texas law as written permits letal force. It does not say you must use a reasonable amount of force or the least amount of force required. The law as written seems to indicate that if the person is in the act you can shoot them in the back without warning. Case law may define this better but the law seems to allow the use of lethal force regardless of circumstance. So provided the assault can be verified i dont think he can be charged.

Maybe if he beat him on the ground but anything less than that i think is permitted

( of course i am just playing lawyer here and have no real knowledge other than this thread)

Well 9.31 is basically the same as 9.32 except that it says you can use force in the same circumstances. The way we were told in our CHL class is if you were in a position where you feel using force is required to resolve the acts listed in 9.31 & 9.32, when the threat ceases to present itself is when you stop.

[T@T]

The difference between that dad and myself is I wouldn't feel one bit of remorse. It's simple. Touch my family,you die and the coroner will wonder why he's soaked in pee.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by T@T

The difference between that dad and myself is I wouldn't feel one bit of remorse. It's simple. Touch my family,you die and the coroner will wonder why he's soaked in pee.

the coroner might not, but I will.

You're going to pee on him?

[RyZ]

Anybody that thinks this father should get/deserves punishment is a sick #######. I'd pat the guy on the back and try to give him any support that him or his family might need to try to get through this situation.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Comment about how angry I am and how my anger and what I would do to that person out does what the posters before me have all said.