Plastic Shopping Bags Banned in Toronto

[albertGQ]

What is this "other thread" that people are talking about. I'd love to read it!

[Daradon]

Ehh a lot of people were talking about the Cindy thread ans saying how it was epic.

I don't concur, it was half a page.

Bored hockey fans that didn't win a kitchen suite or elect a coffee cup grandmaster.

I am honestly not trying to prove them wrong. I swear.

[kirant]

What is this "other thread" that people are talking about. I'd love to read it!

Ottawa launches Alberta counterterrorism unit

That thread.

[kevman]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's lost.

I just had a pastry. Good it was.

Plastic bags are a police state.

I think I have coffee cups in my kitchen suite, do you?

What are we voting on?

Who's Cindy?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by kevman

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's lost.

I just had a pastry. Good it was.

Plastic bags are a police state.

I think I have coffee cups in my kitchen suite, do you?

What are we voting on?

Who's Cindy?

You forgot

Bath

Salts

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

isn't there a way to make bio-degradable plastic bags? you see all sorts of green plastic products around now, how hard and/or more expensive would it be to apply that process to grocery bags?

I've shopped at stores that use them and you wouldn't really notice the difference at all, but from what I understand they're really not much better for the environment. They only degrade under certain conditions which are often not present in landfills and they also can't be recycled like normal plastic bags.

[Ace]

Is there actually any proof that banning plastic bags is better for the environment?

I agree with Ken I don't want my cloth bags holding meat.

You can assume the cloth bags too will eventually be disposed of, plus the additional water use for laundering them, not to mention the plastic bags are totally recyclable (all points I heard on the radio this AM)

The only places I see a value in such a ban are coastal places like Hawaii, where I was informed they were about to implement a ban last time I was there... since these bags end up in the ocean so easily.

But simply for environmental reasons of cloth vs. plastic, or paper vs. plastic colour me unconvinced this is actually better...

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I've shopped at stores that use them and you wouldn't really notice the difference at all, but from what I understand they're really not much better for the environment. They only degrade under certain conditions which are often not present in landfills and they also can't be recycled like normal plastic bags.

Yeah, I think the other problem is that they don't actually decay like most people think about biodegradable.

I'm pretty sure they just fall apart when exposed to sunlight, which of course has two main problems:
1) not a lot of sunlight in a landfill
2) it doesn't do anything to remove plastic from the environment, it's just around in much smaller pieces.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Environmentalists, small business owners, forests and landfills would all be affected. I know if I am out and about and have an impulse to pick up a few things, I might wait instead of having to use paper bags which are too much of a pain to carry. Not good for the smaller convenient stores.

Yeah I more or less just wanted to contribute to the thread without actually contributing.

The ban sounds good to me.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Ace

Is there actually any proof that banning plastic bags is better for the environment?

I agree with Ken I don't want my cloth bags holding meat.

You can assume the cloth bags too will eventually be disposed of, plus the additional water use for laundering them, not to mention the plastic bags are totally recyclable (all points I heard on the radio this AM)

The only places I see a value in such a ban are coastal places like Hawaii, where I was informed they were about to implement a ban last time I was there... since these bags end up in the ocean so easily.

But simply for environmental reasons of cloth vs. plastic, or paper vs. plastic colour me unconvinced this is actually better...

There are 500 BILLION to 1 TRILLION plastic bags produced in the world every year.

I always laugh at the "Oh it can be recycled" argument too. Does anyone actually remember the 3 "R"s? You know, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle? The three are listed from most important to least important, and yet, most people talk as if Recycling is the best thing for the environment. Banning plastic bags actually reduces our consumption. After that, many people do reuse their plastic bags, which is good.

I'll agree that stores should still have small plastic bags to put meat into, either that or vacuum seal all meat.

Whether it's a huge net benefit to the environment or not, I suppose that can be argued. However, it certainly is better to reduce the number of bags people use, and I don't think anyone can deny that. Frankly, it's a lot of plastic being added to the environment that we can easily avoid. Personally, I usually forget to bring my reusable bags, which is a shame.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

There are 500 BILLION to 1 TRILLION plastic bags produced in the world every year.
.

It sounds like a waste of petro-chemical resources as well.

[4X4]

Banning plastic bags is just another fashion show for politicians and environmentalists. It's low hanging fruit for wannabe environmentalists that aren't smart enough to come up with effective ways to keep waste out of landfills.
Go ahead and ban something that is actually reusable instead of going after things that are used once and then discarded. Or maybe finding ways to make recycling available to all households.
Might as well just throw a tax on kitchen garbage bags, because their sales are about to go through the roof.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Banning plastic bags is just another fashion show for politicians and environmentalists. It's low hanging fruit for wannabe environmentalists that aren't smart enough to come up with effective ways to keep waste out of landfills.
Go ahead and ban something that is actually reusable instead of going after things that are used once and then discarded. Or maybe finding ways to make recycling available to all households.
Might as well just throw a tax on kitchen garbage bags, because their sales are about to go through the roof.

Just because something isn't a perfect idea doesn't mean it isn't a good one.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Just because something isn't a perfect idea doesn't mean it isn't a good one.

Well we could ban cars too. They're half plastic, plus their emissions pollute the atmosphere.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Banning plastic bags is just another fashion show for politicians and environmentalists. It's low hanging fruit for wannabe environmentalists that aren't smart enough to come up with effective ways to keep waste out of landfills.
Go ahead and ban something that is actually reusable instead of going after things that are used once and then discarded. Or maybe finding ways to make recycling available to all households.
Might as well just throw a tax on kitchen garbage bags, because their sales are about to go through the roof.

I don't think anyone is saying that this is the pinnacle of environmental conservation. It is something that will help the environment, and really effects no one. Everyone can easily adapt.

I don't doubt that really cheap flimsy garbage bags that resemble plastic bags will start to be sold in stores. Some people will buy them, but overall, plastic consumption will go way down.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It sounds like a waste of petro-chemical resources as well.

If we say that a box of 1000 plastic bags takes up 1 cubic foot, 1 trillion plastic bags would take up 1 billion cubic feet - a cube 1000ft on each side - or enough to completely fill the new Cowboys Stadium 10 TIMES.

That amount every year.

[OffsideSpecialist]

So...will they be banning plastic wrapping around toilet paper, kleenex boxes, paper towels etc. and plastic bags for fruits? Why don't they charge for each fruit bag one uses as well, those are all plastic and destroying the world too.

For the record, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with the ban, as long as the paper bags have handles and are actually sturdy enough to carry some groceries for folks who have to walk to the supermarket. However, if they are targeting plastic bags, why don't they also target plastic wrapping on other items in the supermarket? Even more so, why not target the completely ridiculous amounts of plastic on electronics, such as those USB sticks that seem to have 10x more plastic than is actually necessary. Why not encourage these products to be packages in cardboard or paper as well? I think that reducing plastic cases on other grocery items as well as electronics or other items that use a ridiculous amount of plastic would actually do more than this ban. I don't see people use plastic bags very often anymore anyway.

Also, has it actually been proven that paper bags are any better for the environment than plastic? The guy on the radio this morning swore that paper bags were actually worse for it.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Well we could ban cars too. They're half plastic, plus their emissions pollute the atmosphere.

Again another completely irreleveant point for two reasons.

1) Just because there is an idea that will reduce more polution, doesn't mean the one being proposed isn't valid

2) Using an extreme and unpractical example does nothing to negate an idea that will have almost no impact on our daily lives, but could reduce waste by a very large ammount. If we try to balance environmental impact vs impact on our daily lives, eliminating cars will certainly lean towards more impact on our daily lives, where as eliminating bags leans quite heavily in the other direction.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Again another completely irreleveant point for two reasons.

1) Just because there is an idea that will reduce more polution, doesn't mean the one being proposed isn't valid

2) Using an extreme and unpractical example does nothing to negate an idea that will have almost no impact on our daily lives, but could reduce waste by a very large ammount. If we try to balance environmental impact vs impact on our daily lives, eliminating cars will certainly lean towards more impact on our daily lives, where as eliminating bags leans quite heavily in the other direction.

I use plastic bags all the time. I'm not going to buy fancy cotton bags for my garbage can. I'm gonna stick with plastic, TYVM. I guess I'm just going to have to pay for them now. But I'm glad I'll be helping the environment so significantly with my extra $5/month to GLAD trashco.
Meanwhile, I bet that Cowboys stadium gets fill about 100x/day by the packaging from actual groceries. Like plastic margerine containers, and yogurt containers, and styrofoam from meat, and the plastic around each little pizza pop.
And the two barrels of oil to make the two square feet of super plastic that that holds the $15 flash drive. And all that plastic gets only one use. 15 times thicker, and only used once.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I use plastic bags all the time. I'm not going to buy fancy cotton bags for my garbage can. I'm gonna stick with plastic, TYVM. I guess I'm just going to have to pay for them now. But I'm glad I'll be helping the environment so significantly with my extra $5/month to GLAD trashco.
Meanwhile, I bet that Cowboys stadium gets fill about 100x/day by the packaging from actual groceries. Like plastic margerine containers, and yogurt containers, and styrofoam from meat, and the plastic around each little pizza pop.
And the two barrels of oil to make the two square feet of super plastic that that holds the $15 flash drive. And all that plastic gets only one use. 15 times thicker, and only used once.

Unless you recycle your electronics.