There are no bad jobs, says Flaherty

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

What's rich about this is that two years ago, I got laid off in B.C. And took a lower paying job in Edmonton to get off EI which I collected for two weeks. The Harper government rejected my moving expenses, the next year when I did my taxes, sending me a bill. Eventually I produced letters from the ex employer who laid me off, my current employer, a cousin who put me up for 6 weeks, plus receipts for more than I claimed to justify why I claimed it, and they did in fact owe me money. Of course they would send me an adjusted bill every month running up the interest...when they agreed my claim was legitimate...no interest for me.

I imagine they're looking for reasons to keep their auditors busy with this claim. Move away for a better job, and be rest assured we're going to audit your arse after you do. They probably use these adjusted fake tax returns to lie about their revenue numbers in the budget so they can keep on claiming how awesome they are.

Yes, the Harper government cares deeply about your moving expenses. The bureaucracy is not the government.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Wormius

But you have to realize that EI is a percentage (or at least it was) of whatever income they had before. Depending on their job, it would be pittance to what they could get actually having a job. I think during my time I was at the cap of about $1440 / month. This was very basic living if you single or married without kids.

I never suggested the people willing to do the bare minimum and collect IE were the sharpest knives in the drawer... just the laziest.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

How is it that we have millions of foreigners wanting move have way across the globe, relocate their family or even leave their family to send money back home, yet we have some provinces with double digit unemployment because those people are unwilling to move a few thousand km's in the same country to try an make their life better?

It's because our society and social programs have made life to comfortable in Canada. Alberta and Sask have enough job vacancies to hire all the unemployed in Eastern Canada, but most of those people will not relocate here to make a better life.

I'm not sure it is fair to directly compare someone living in a 3rd world nation who are politically, economically or religiously persecuted with someone living in a different province.

It is one thing to have nothing and be willing to relocate to a better life. It is entirely different when you have a whole social and family network. Everyone needs a job, but the job shouldn't be more important than everything else. And I am someone who moved from eastern Canada.

[GP_Matt]

One of the articles talked about regions with high unemployment that were bringing in temporary foreign workers because the guys on EI didn't want the jobs.
Something is definitely wrong with that picture.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I'm not sure it is fair to directly compare someone living in a 3rd world nation who are politically, economically or religiously persecuted with someone living in a different province.

It is one thing to have nothing and be willing to relocate to a better life. It is entirely different when you have a whole social and family network. Everyone needs a job, but the job shouldn't be more important than everything else. And I am someone who moved from eastern Canada.

You and thousands of others.

Having a job and being able to provide for your family might be the sacrifice people have to make these days. I realize that family and friends being close is nice, but I re-located due to work issues as well.

Perhaps the Alberta government needs to work with the Federal government to create a bigger incentive for people to move to Alberta. Help cover moving expenses, etc, etc. It might cost some money, but in the long run having someone employed is better than having them collect EI.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

One of the articles talked about regions with high unemployment that were bringing in temporary foreign workers because the guys on EI didn't want the jobs.
Something is definitely wrong with that picture.

Yep. Exactly what I keep talking about. Canadians are being extremely picky about what work they do, probably because a lot of the work that is available is physically oriented, and as a result we're adding a record amount of jobs the past few months, but unemployment is staying the same or going up just a bit because the unemployed in Canada are not willing to do the work that foreigners are coming in and doing.

[MarchHare]

It is one thing to have nothing and be willing to relocate to a better life. It is entirely different when you have a whole social and family network. Everyone needs a job, but the job shouldn't be more important than everything else. And I am someone who moved from eastern Canada.

I also relocated to Alberta from Eastern Canada, but I did so as a 22-year old university graduate who wasn't tied down with any roots. It's very easy for someone in that position to move across the country in search of work. It's not so simple for people in their 50s. When I moved to Calgary, my mother was working full time while also taking care of her elderly parents. There's no way she could have relocated then no matter how desparately she needed a job.

[WCan_Kid]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I also relocated to Alberta from Eastern Canada, but I did so as a 22-year old university graduate who wasn't tied down with any roots. It's very easy for someone in that position to move across the country in search of work. It's not so simple for people in their 50s. When I moved to Calgary, my mother was working full time while also taking care of her elderly parents. There's no way she could have relocated then no matter how desparately she needed a job.

Special situations like your mothers are why we have EI & welfare programs, problem is that too many people just flat out don't want to move or take a job that's "beneath" them. I have absolutely no problem with helping those that need the help, no patience for those who are too lazy or entitled to help themselves, though.

[Julio]

Interesting chart here: http://davidwcampbell.com/?p=4763

EI Payments (total) by Province – Per Capita (2009)
Canada

$580.4

Newfoundland and Labrador

$1,916.9

Prince Edward Island

$1,509.2

Nova Scotia

$822.4

New Brunswick

$1,111.9

Quebec

$698.2

Ontario

$506.4

Manitoba

$374.9

Saskatchewan

$388.7

Alberta

$445.3

British Columbia

$478.1

Source: Statistics Canada CANSIM Table Table 111-0007.

It seems that from Quebec west EI is seen as insurance, in the Maritimes it is a regular part of your income stream.

[Azure]

OTTAWA - As the Conservative government proposes major reforms to the employment insurance system, new figures show Canadians made hundreds of thousands of fraudulent EI claims over the past four years and received nearly $800 million in total overpayments.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/Ottawa+wrote+m...#ixzz1vGyXXNHL

Seems to me the system does need reformed. $125 million in payments that they don't bother trying to recover every year. What could we do with $125 million I wonder?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

Read more: http://www.canada.com/Ottawa+wrote+m...#ixzz1vGyXXNHL

Seems to me the system does need reformed. $125 million in payments that they don't bother trying to recover every year. What could we do with $125 million I wonder?

Build a couple pedestrian bridges that Calgarians drive down to walk on, then go back to their cars and drive home.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Azure

You and thousands of others.

Having a job and being able to provide for your family might be the sacrifice people have to make these days. I realize that family and friends being close is nice, but I re-located due to work issues as well.

Perhaps the Alberta government needs to work with the Federal government to create a bigger incentive for people to move to Alberta. Help cover moving expenses, etc, etc. It might cost some money, but in the long run having someone employed is better than having them collect EI.

Most people on this planet would think it would be great if all you had to do is move to another part of a country that had basically zero unemployment, just to get a decent job.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Build a couple pedestrian bridges that Calgarians drive down to walk on, then go back to their cars and drive home.

Exactly what I was thinking!

[Julio]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion...539/story.html

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Julio

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion...539/story.html

Seasonal workers do exist, I know from my time in Oilfield Services. However, we need to keep in mind that not all people on EI are like this.

An example of an issue that exists today is people that have been laid off in their 50s. Not many corporations are going to hire these people, regardless of experience, although they held high end jobs just a few years prior.

So these people are close but still a little far from retirement. in addition they probably don't have the savings to retire. So hat do they do? Try and try to find a job, and can't. Then they are faced with carrying groceries, or working at a restoraunt.

These are people who have paid into EI for decades, who are now told to put up and shut up. It is a matter of pride to these people, they'll work, but to go from years of privilege to nothing is very very hard.

I know because I have family in this situation. They go interview and the employer says, "look your old, I know you can't get hired, so I'll offer you minimum, cause I can". If you think that is a made up story, think again. It has been told to me by several relatives.

All I am saying, is that there are many abusers. However, there are many good people who are in bad situations. Before you group all of them together think of where you'll be in 20-30 years, maybe you'll be cleaning toilets because the govt told you to take what you can get.

There has to be a better way. Maybe build a database to flag these abusers, and apply the new rule to them, instead of the single moms and old folks who were let go? Just a thought.

[Azure]

At the end of the day, someone who is 50 years old and is trying their best to find a job is someone who should be able to collect EI.

But someone is abusing the system by doing seasonal work needs to be stopped. I actually find it sickening that people are purposely abusing the welfare system, when there are 50 year workers out there that can't buy a job and need to collect EI to pay for basic necessities.

Sickening is actually a nice way of putting it.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Azure

Yep. Exactly what I keep talking about. Canadians are being extremely picky about what work they do, probably because a lot of the work that is available is physically oriented, and as a result we're adding a record amount of jobs the past few months, but unemployment is staying the same or going up just a bit because the unemployed in Canada are not willing to do the work that foreigners are coming in and doing.

That should be taken with a grain of salt. There are a lot of unscrupulous employers who would love to take advantage of being able to bring in somebody for minimum wage than paying somebody an adequate salary. How can you even tell though if foreign workers are being brought in to fill positions that EI recipients don't want? Is there a correlation between skill set and the workers being brought in? Are there some numbers showing what jobs EI recipients applied for or not?

I know that when we were considering hiring a nanny, the person who was running this organization said - put an ad in the paper and some stuff and pretend to interview a few people, then you can get a apply to allow a foreign worker to come and fil the position and pay them minimum wage (or less as the guy was suggesting).

So, who knows if EI recipients were even really considered for any position in this case. If some employer thinks this is a good way to cut salary related expenses the would probably do that.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by Julio

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion...539/story.html

This quote from that article really sums it up nicely.

...Ottawa has tried on occasion to place repeat EI recipients in full time work, subsidizing their wages to ensure no loss of income. Those experiments failed because no one would participate. The reason? Many do not consider themselves “unemployed” when they’re on EI. Benefits are just part of their annual income.

...

Honestly this is what needs fixing, not the "type" of jobs available, but the habitual abusers who arean't using EI as a stopgap, but a way of life.

Of course the 50 year old engineer who's worked his whole life is gonna suck it up and scrub toilets when he's told to, he's got his pride & understands the idea of pulling your own weight. Is it fair? No absolutely not. But if some one's been collecting EI yearly for the last 5 years or so I see nothing wrong with saying "hey, here's your scrub brush, get to work"

To me the issue isn't the type of jobs available, but the lack of limits on EI. Collected EI for the 3rd straight year? Hey guess what? We're gonna need you to work for another 3 years before filing another claim.

[Regular_John]

This article from The National Post suggest some of the changes are geared towards the repeat users, which does seem like a pretty reasonable place to start with reform.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05...e-to-not-work/

...This week, reports confirmed these changes will demand repeat users of the program take lower-paying jobs than Canadians who are using EI for the first time— a move that specifically targets seasonal workers and those who are arguably coasting on the system....

[Stranger]

^^ I see nothing wrong with that. If you are on it every year then yes you should be given other options to make a living.