Air Canada Wildcat Baggage Handlers Strike

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Why would anyone purposely book with AC?

i always book with AC unless I cant.

- far better in flight entertainment system
- bigger seats
- status miles which i can use to upgrade to business class - i just did a trip to Asia and back, all with upgrades, loved it.
- air canada lounge

Originally Posted by fliguy

The agreement you linked to is from 2002, which is before AC employees took a 20% paycut, so that contract you are showing is no longer valid. That is what the employees are upset about. They took a 20% paycut to help the company stay afloat. Then they see Robert Milton, ex CEO of AC, walk away with somewhere between 80-100 million dollars after employees volunteered to take the paycut. Along comes the next CEO and walks away with $20 million dollars. Now the current CEO is getting a $5 million dollar bonus just for staying with the company. Upper management gets bonuses and increased pension payouts, while the company is telling the rest of the employees that there is no money to pay into the pension as they are obligated to, and there is no money for any type of raise. So no raises and no pension payments by the company, while the higher ups get bonuses and wage increase. If management backed up what they are saying by themselves not taking bonuses and increasing their pension, I am sure there would be a whole lot less conflict.

i think its disgusting for a leader to take a penny when he asks his workers to take a cut.

sounds like these employee's should quit, why be treated like that? its the only true leverage they have anyhow. quit enmasse. if AC can rehire, retrain and replace at the rates and terms they are offering, than so be it.

why subject yourself to that kind of treatment though? for a job? please, quit if you dont like the conditions, why beg to be treated with respect.

[Bertuzzied]

I love Scabs! I hope Safeway guys go on strike again so i can go scabbing.

[Maccalus]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

why subject yourself to that kind of treatment though? for a job? please, quit if you dont like the conditions, why beg to be treated with respect.

I know my Dad is sticking it out. He is a mechanic with ~30 years of seniority built up and a few years from "retirement". He is sticking it out until his pension is maxed and then will probably bolt to a different job. On the maitenance side of the company there are alot of people with that amount of seniority doing the same thing.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Maccalus

I know my Dad is sticking it out. He is a mechanic with ~30 years of seniority built up and a few years from "retirement". He is sticking it out until his pension is maxed and then will probably bolt to a different job. On the maitenance side of the company there are alot of people with that amount of seniority doing the same thing.

seems to be a good reason, sounds like your Dad is getting something out of his employment with AC. if he resents the CEO getting huge bucks, maybe he should have tried that career path? (not saying he does, just relating it back to the topic).

Company took care of him and he is just about to get his reward, good reason for your dad to not strike or quit right now, i respect that.

I still think its disgusting that the CEO rapes the company and clawbacks the employee's, they should quit in protest or get on with getting on.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

I think its disgusting for a leader to take a penny when he asks his workers to take a cut.

sounds like these employee's should quit, why be treated like that? its the only true leverage they have anyhow. quit enmasse. if AC can rehire, retrain and replace at the rates and terms they are offering, than so be it.

why subject yourself to that kind of treatment though? for a job? please, quit if you dont like the conditions, why beg to be treated with respect.

It is absolutely disgusting... 20% pay cuts to keep the company afloat while the CEO and board took a huge chunk of the savings and passed it onto themselves as bonuses. AC didn't pay that back to the employees as per agreements after the company became profitable again. Now they're saying there's no money for pensions AC should be legally obligated to pay out even though the board keeps on taking huge bonuses. It's sad the company has gotten so gutted by executive mismanagement and I totally agree the company should just die already.

True it is just a job, but what about the people who are closed to retiring. A family friend is in that mess with Aveo right now (old Air Canada's Technical Services and kind of separate from the whole baggage handler strike) shutting down. Who's going to hire mechanics that are close to that retirement age? Sad thing is, there's a very limited job market for these employees. Even though Westjet on average pays way better than AC now, I doubt all the majority of those laid off will have much luck with the flood onto the market. All of those Aveo jobs are getting outsourced to Brazil too. So the desperate will do what they have to, executive board took all the money and ran with it, prospects of getting a job at the other place that you've been specialized in is slim, protest to see if you can get some publicity to the situation before trying to look for a new job. Kick in the nuts is the pensions these employees worked for decades to get are likely to be going to be gone too. You guys can criticize all you like, but would you honestly say you'd do much different if you were stuck in a similar situation?

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

It is absolutely disgusting... 20% pay cuts to keep the company afloat while the CEO and board took a huge chunk of the savings and passed it onto themselves as bonuses. AC didn't pay that back to the employees as per agreements after the company became profitable again. Now they're saying there's no money for pensions AC should be legally obligated to pay out even though the board keeps on taking huge bonuses. It's sad the company has gotten so gutted by executive mismanagement and I totally agree the company should just die already.

True it is just a job, but what about the people who are closed to retiring. A family friend is in that mess with Aveo right now (old Air Canada's Technical Services and kind of separate from the whole baggage handler strike) shutting down. Who's going to hire mechanics that are close to that retirement age? Sad thing is, there's a very limited job market for these employees. Even though Westjet on average pays way better than AC now, I doubt all the majority of those laid off will have much luck with the flood onto the market. All of those Aveo jobs are getting outsourced to Brazil too. So the desperate will do what they have to, executive board took all the money and ran with it, prospects of getting a job at the other place that you've been specialized in is slim, protest to see if you can get some publicity to the situation before trying to look for a new job. Kick in the nuts is the pensions these employees worked for decades to get are likely to be going to be gone too. You guys can criticize all you like, but would you honestly say you'd do much different if you were stuck in a similar situation?

i am not going to critisize, i think its shameful to take a bonus of any amount when your employees are being asked to cut back. if i was one of those employee's, i would have taken my act somewhere else without good reason to stay and be treated like that.

I dont understand the nuances though of why Aveo employee's will lose their pension. Did they invest it in the company? If so, that doesnt seem wise on their pension managers side?

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

i am not going to critisize, i think its shameful to take a bonus of any amount when your employees are being asked to cut back. if i was one of those employee's, i would have taken my act somewhere else without good reason to stay and be treated like that.

I dont understand the nuances though of why Aveo employee's will lose their pension. Did they invest it in the company? If so, that doesnt seem wise on their pension managers side?

Yes, but at near retirement age it's hard to be as mobile in that regard especially in specialized fields like aviation unfortunately.

I don't know if it's entirely gone or just mostly at this point. Aveo's more or less defunct and liquidating it's assets, what's the rule with bankruptcy and owed pensions and money? I don't know much about those financial laws but I seem to remember reading somewhere creditors come first in these cases.
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story...s-protest.html

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

seems to be a good reason, sounds like your Dad is getting something out of his employment with AC. if he resents the CEO getting huge bucks, maybe he should have tried that career path? (not saying he does, just relating it back to the topic).

Company took care of him and he is just about to get his reward, good reason for your dad to not strike or quit right now, i respect that.

I still think its disgusting that the CEO rapes the company and clawbacks the employee's, they should quit in protest or get on with getting on.

The CEO doesn't really 'rape' the company, the CEO signs a contract that anyone on this forum would sign in a heartbeat and gets paid based upon that contract. Blame the people who made the offer, the board as a representative of the shareholders.

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by valo403

The CEO doesn't really 'rape' the company, the CEO signs a contract that anyone on this forum would sign in a heartbeat and gets paid based upon that contract. Blame the people who made the offer, the board as a representative of the shareholders.

i can buy that and i dont begrudge any person for earning what they negotiate. i just find it offensive to demand cuts and then take a bonus.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Violator

I Was working as a baggage handler in Vancouver for 10.75 an hour the Compaby did west jet Cathay pacific The guys for Aircanada made mid twentys to start and used to leave bags on the runway all the time.

That "sentence" is absolutely painful to read.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

WestJet>Air Canada

Not even close anymore. Air Canada has nicer planes, more space, a better rewards system, and a better seat back entertainment system that you can watch right to the gate. Best feature going on airlines these days...

[DementedReality]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Not even close anymore. Air Canada has nicer planes, more space, a better rewards system, and a better seat back entertainment system that you can watch right to the gate. Best feature going on airlines these days...

In the last year I have been on WJ, UA, OZ, TH and AC

None came close to AC for flight experience AINEC.

Saying AC sucks is so cliche, based on in flight experience.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

and a better seat back entertainment system that you can watch right to the gate ...

Good thing about that last part because you might be stuck on the tarmac for hours while the various air Canada occupations strike without notice or all call in sick the same day.

[Delthefunky]

This is more about what has been taken away from AC employees, then new demands they are making.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Best feature going on airlines these days...

No, that's still price. A low(er) price will always be the very best feature an airline can offer the masses. As an individual who flies a fair bit for pleasure, I cannot afford to spend anything more then I have to. And with that said, I don't think I've flown AC for 10 years, no matter if the flight is national, to the States or overseas, AC is never (well, maybe not never, I sure they have seat sales, but they've never been cheaper for the routes/times I was travelling) the cheapest, and usually are quite a bit more expensive.

I am sure there are many air travellers out there that can afford to spend a little extra money for a few extra features, but I would suggest most wouldn't, thus WestJet's continued and ever growing popularity.

[Table 5]

The drama around the actual flight (missing baggage, cancelled flights, etc) can get out of control, but I find the actual flight experience of AC to be really nice. It definitely beats any of the airlines in the US. Once you've flown Delta, you never complain about AC ever again.

Just wish flying in Canada wasn't so damn expensive. SF-NYC, $300. CGY-TOR $800??

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The drama around the actual flight (missing baggage, cancelled flights, etc) can get out of control, but I find the actual flight experience of AC to be really nice. It definitely beats any of the airlines in the US. Once you've flown Delta, you never complain about AC ever again.

Just wish flying in Canada wasn't so damn expensive. SF-NYC, $300. CGY-TOR $800??

Yes, mind boggling actually, especially considering you can pretty much always pick up a direct, return flight Calgary to London, England for $500-750. One of the big reasons I do fly WJ a fair amount is because I do go out to the GTA and the Calgary-Hamilton route on Westjet is usually much cheaper. Have a flight booked for later this year on that route, return taxes in for $580.

[tenyardrambo]

unions=fail...structuring your business(airline) like westjet is the best way to go. More profit that is made, the more the people will make at the end.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Why would anyone purposely book with AC?

I can see if you had no other choice I guess but you gotta figure there is at least a reasonable chance of having to deal with a disgruntled union member at some point during your trip. Assuming that your flight even happens that is.

Two words: Executive First.

In the last 3 years I have flown on Air Canada, United, Delta, KLM, Lufthansa, American Airlines, Austrian Air, Philippine Airlines, Caribbean Airlines, Kenya Airways, British Airways, Ethiopian Airlines, El Al Airlines, Korean Air, Aerosvit, Westjet, LOT Polish Airlines, US Airways and Mexicana (now bankrupt).

Having flown all these airlines I can say that Air Canada has some of the most comfortable aircraft. Their business class can not compare to most airlines except maybe the A380's run by Emirates and Quantas and the new Dreamliners. The standard seating is much better than most other airlines as well.

Most aircraft run by the US airlines are old and crap. This is why Air Canada continuously wins best airline in North America.

I can understand that most people who just travel once or twice a year for vacation could care less about Air Canada. But for people who travel a lot, Air Canada is by far the superior airline when it comes to comfort, rewards, entertainment and food. Access to Maple Leaf lounges and Star Alliance lounges is also a major benefit.

Now when it comes to management and the employees. I agree, Air Canada has a looooong way to go. Management doesn't give a crap if they f'd up and a lot, not all, but a lot of the employees give off a vibe like you are causing them a hassle when you fly with them.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Two words: Executive Fist.

Sounds fun.