I want to buy a street bike.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Is ABS something that a lot of bike guys look down upon?

I'm sure that when I'm cruising on my SV the guys riding the GSXRs are laughing at me, but I don't really care. This will be just my third season riding, and I'm quite content with my bike. Maybe some day I'll upgrade.

I don't look down on ABS at all, just my observation. I'm sure if I ever used it I wouldn't go without it.

[speede5]

Don't buy a new bike. Chances are good you'll lay it down at least once. Even a light layover, forgetting to put the kickstand down (more common than you think) will hurt the wallet a lot less on a used bike.

Get the biggest bike you can and respect the power.

Take a course in basic skills and once you are confident take a race course. Learn proper techniques, balance, counter steering etc. Once you thrash a bike on a race course you will have little need to push it on the street. Get it out of your system on track days. Way more fun and safer. Any of the bikes mentioned in this thread would be fun at the track. Does race city still run track days?

Don't waste your time with the CBR125. I really like that bike but it's very niche and you will be tired of it in two weeks. Great bike to introduce timid little ladies to the sport, commuting, or for riding schools to build a fleet but not for anyone who has thoughts of blasting to Banff for lunch.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

In regards to ABS...I have been riding for about five years now and moved from a bike without ABS (Honda Magna) to one with (BMW R1150GS). I'll never go without and here's why...

I took the advanced course with Too Cool last summer and learned how easy it is to 'high-side' the bike if you lock the back wheel. If you don't know what high-siding is...in a panic situation its easy (too easy) to lock up the rear wheel (which is now stationary and no longer acting like a gyroscope)...if your bike is leaning over and you release that back wheel it acts like a gyroscope again..violently changing the bike's position and launching you into who knows what kind of turmoil...

Engineer here, not that it matters, but for interests sake, highsiding actually has nothing to do with your wheels acting like a gyroscope (your wheel starting to spin wouldn't put any gyroscopic force on your bike unelss you did something to try to move it, as by definition if your wheel is acting like a gyroscope, it would resist any change in orientation to the bike, such as flipping).
When you lock up your back wheel and it starts to skid, there is actually less friction between the wheel and the pavement. When you let go of the brake, and the wheel catches the pavement and starts to apply power to it, there is more friction, and that change in force on the back wheel is what causes the bike to lurch/flip.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Thanks BBS...the end result is the same...but its good to know what's really going on.

[speede5]

Why do people use the back brake on the street?

Edit: Before I get jumped on, IMO the rear brake is a tricky piece to add into your riding and what I would l consider an advanced control, it can add a lot of balance to your ride, but when it comes to stopping, particularly in a panic scenario, it can do a lot of harm. If all you do is jam on the binders, f/r, you will most assuredly lock the rear. The rear brake is best used for corner entry and corner management, trail braking, and if you are really on top of things, settling the bike before hard braking, but that's a hard habit to learn.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Why?...bad habits

[3 Justin 3]

You're supposed to use both brakes when you brake, you stop quicker. In an emergency you're right though I'm not touching the rear, odds are you'll lock up.

The back brake isn't that dangerous, from what you guys are posting it seems everyone is locking it up, I've never locked mine up. Don't be a maniac on it, be gentle.

[Josh]

First thing I learned on the track was don't touch your rear brake. In a hard braking situation it becomes way too easy to lock up the rear. I only use my rear to keep the bike stationary at a stoplight or on a hill.

[Bill Bumface]

I don't ride motor bikes, but won't grabbing only the front brake throw you over the bars? On a mountain bike if you're on level, smooth ground locking up the rear is really easy to recover from if you keep it locked until you bleed off most your speed. Is the danger locking it up and instinctually letting go while still at speed? (I ruined myself biking doing this once)

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I don't ride motor bikes, but won't grabbing only the front brake throw you over the bars? On a mountain bike if you're on level, smooth ground locking up the rear is really easy to recover from if you keep it locked until you bleed off most your speed. Is the danger locking it up and instinctually letting go while still at speed? (I ruined myself biking doing this once)

Yup, that's exactly it.
It's pretty much a myth that you'll go over the handle bars if you hit the front breaks too hard.
Once you lock up your rear wheel, if you let it go and it actually catches the pavement and starts putting power down again, that's when you get in the most trouble, and if you're leaning/turning it's pretty easy to high side it.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yup, that's exactly it.
It's pretty much a myth that you'll go over the handle bars if you hit the front breaks too hard.
Once you lock up your rear wheel, if you let it go and it actually catches the pavement and starts putting power down again, that's when you get in the most trouble, and if you're leaning/turning it's pretty easy to high side it.

As the witness to said mountain biking incident, I'd say you're the expert on this... haha.

Why can't you go over the bars? Not enough traction? Is it only possible at low speeds (all those guys I see doing stoppies at lights).

[burn_this_city]

If you grab the front brake in a corner you can bail pretty easily. Both brakes can be used, but it depends on the situation. One thing I dislike about the front brake is having to pre-load it so the front end doesn't dive down.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

As the witness to said mountain biking incident, I'd say you're the expert on this... haha.

Why can't you go over the bars? Not enough traction? Is it only possible at low speeds (all those guys I see doing stoppies at lights).

Yeah, that was funny when you bailed, and a great example of high siding, even if it was for a competely differnt reason.

It's not that you can't go over the bars, it's just not really that likely. To do an endo/stoppie, I'm sure you've got to move a lot of your weight forward at the right time (granted I've never done one so what do I know).

Most bikes I'd say there just isn't enough traction/force to get the center of gravity on the bike to start rotating without some help from the rider.
So is it possible? Sure I guess so. Am I worried about it happening? Not really.

[speede5]

With factory brakes it is almost impossible to go over the bars. There's technique to doing stoppies, weight transfer, and rapid unloading of the rear tire. It's not hard to get the back tire slightly off the ground though and that is why it's so easy to lock the rear. Most amature riders will go full brake in a panic, safe with the front but deadly with the back.

If there's sand, gravel or water on the road though, easy to lock up the front and lo-side. Did that once when my clutch cable snapped. Tried stopping on gravel, and I was trying to hit neutral from second. Went right through to first and stalled.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Haha I've done that about half a dozen times already.

Between this thread and reading a lot of reviews, I'm leaning towards the SV650 (dependent on actually going out to check it out of course). I've found lots on kijiji for a decent price, but none of them are noting that they have ABS.

My first street bike was a 2002 SV650s (no ABS). All these years later, I wouldn't have done it any differently. It's always been a "Top Value" and "Gentle but Capable" bike. I really do like the GS500 as a 1 or 2 year starter bike, but you could realistically enjoy an SV forever.

And in my opinion, ABS is overrated. I wouldn't pay extra for it - I'd buy better gear, lol.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by theinfinitejar

I have to agree, it's hard to learn how to emergency brake in a panic without experience. ABS could save a new rider some serious trouble if they grab a handful of brake in a panic.

That's the first time I've heard that argument in support of bike ABS. Good point, I actually see why a new(er) rider would want ABS.

Just curious, but am I the only one who practices panic breaking (and turning radius control, and collision avoidance, etc)? I'll occasionally find myself a nice empty parking lot and practice....a behavior that was encouraged way back when I took lessons.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I don't ride motor bikes, but won't grabbing only the front brake throw you over the bars? On a mountain bike if you're on level, smooth ground locking up the rear is really easy to recover from if you keep it locked until you bleed off most your speed. Is the danger locking it up and instinctually letting go while still at speed? (I ruined myself biking doing this once)

I've gone over the handlebars more times than I can count on a mountain bike. Never on my motorcycle. On a motorcycle you have a longer wheel base, more mass and a much lower center of gravity. Keep in mind on that Mountain bike you've got 180lbs on top of a 30lb frame with that high center of gravity you have a natural tendency go over the bars. With a motorcycle you've got 180lbs sitting on 400 lbs with a much lower center of gravity.

BTW, I'm always using the front brake with the rear on my mountain bike, the rear just doesn't have near the braking power.

[DownhillGoat]

So is there any way to insure/register a bike without having a class 6? Seems counter intuitive. I can see it being tough to get a class 6 without practice, and it's tough to get practice without a bike. Not comfortable borrowing to ride for the first time.

[burn_this_city]

Yes there is, I did it last year. If the insurance company gives you grief explain the laws, they will insure you. From there you can register the bike without question.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

I don't look down on ABS at all, just my observation. I'm sure if I ever used it I wouldn't go without it.

All I know is that when I was taking rider training none of the instructors had it on their bikes and the leader strongly suggested that everyone avoid getting a bike equiped with it.