Also, a pretty antagonistic thing for her to do. The best way to get people to show their love and charity is to crap all over something they have a devotion to. Right.
So you don't believe in seperation of church and state, and think that a significant segment of society should be ignored and have religion pushed onto them in a PUBLIC school?
Sorry bullying over a religious prayer being taken down is not about religion, its just 'tradition' ... right.
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She was offended by a banner. Her peers are offended by her actions. She is the snotty nosed kid that is always running to an authority to get her way. She took her school to court. She cost her school money. For what? To force the school to cater to her intolerance.
People who act like this shouldn't expect that once they've forced there will on others that they will love them for it. The responses those teens gave might not have been christian but, they were certainly human.
Her intolerance? In your view, she should tolerate the infringement of her consitutional rights by state-promulgated religion? Any other rights she should tolerate being infringed? Or just this one?
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So you don't believe in seperation of church and state, and think that a significant segment of society should be ignored and have religion pushed onto them in a PUBLIC school?
Sorry bullying over a religious prayer being taken down is not about religion, its just 'tradition' ... right.
Just like the civil rights movement was not about, you know, the vestiges of slavery and, ahem, civil rights, it was just about the long and proud "tradition" of white hegemony in the United States?
Or just like gay marriage isn't about civil rights, its just about the long and proud "tradition" of homophobia and persecution of homosexuals?
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I'm sure if this was a school full of mostly muslims and 1 christian student protested the muslim prayer sign in their public school, these same christians and posters apologizing here would be condemning that christian too.
Oh wait, no they'd call them a hero for standing up.
She was offended by a banner. Her peers are offended by her actions. She is the snotty nosed kid that is always running to an authority to get her way. She took her school to court. She cost her school money. For what? To force the school to cater to her intolerance.
She was offended by a banner. Her peers are offended by her actions.
SHe may well have been offended, but the courts didn't take up the case because of any offence she felt - they did so because there was a clear violation of the law.
Her peers are welcome to be offended by her understanding and defence of the US constitution, but they should be ashamed.
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Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
She is the snotty nosed kid that is always running to an authority to get her way.
I have seen many images and interviews and not in one did her sinuses appear to be either congested or draining.
Please refrain from making juvenile insults if you intend to discuss this as an adult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
She took her school to court.
She asked her school to comply with the law voluntarily. The school refused to do so.
Is that not what the courts are for?
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Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
She cost her school money.
Doesn't every student cost their school money?
In this case, the School board wasted money do to not complying with the law and forcing a court case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
For what? To force the school to cater to her intolerance.
Is the constitution intolerant?
It would be better for everyone if people could come to the understanding that atheists are in no way against the public expression of religion (in fact most of us would be fine with more of it) - what upsets us is endorsement of religion by institutions that are required, by law, to be secular for everyones equal benefit.
Why you continually fail to understand that important distinction is confusing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
People who act like this shouldn't expect that once they've forced there will on others that they will love them for it.
THe bloody immigrants who are against this courts decision should either love their country (and its constitution) or leave it.
No-one expects her to win anyones love; however to excuse the ruthless bullying she has received demonstrates a definite lack of compassion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
The responses those teens gave might not have been christian but, they were certainly human.
Good thing christians can behave in whichever way is most convenient for them.
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So you don't believe in seperation of church and state, and think that a significant segment of society should be ignored and have religion pushed onto them in a PUBLIC school?
Sorry bullying over a religious prayer being taken down is not about religion, its just 'tradition' ... right.
This isn't about a prayer being taken down, it's about a banner being taken down, one that happened to have a prayer on it. It wasn't the prayer that everyone was attached to, it was the fact the banner represented their school.
As for the separation of Church and state, I believe in it wholeheartedly. One of the biggest problems in the world nowadays is the proper separation of church and state. But at this time of day, I don't have the time to get into that right now.
Her intolerance? In your view, she should tolerate the infringement of her consitutional rights by state-promulgated religion? Any other rights she should tolerate being infringed? Or just this one?
There is no constitutional right to be free of religious expression. The constitution's intent was to keep separate church and State. They wanted to prevent the formation of a State church while maintaining religious freedom for all. If the framers of the constitution intended government to refrain from any form of religious expression they wouldn't have mentioned God or conducted prayers during government sessions. The issue then was separation of power between church and State.
Today we have seen Judges appointed who care little for the original intent of the constitution. They see that document as something in need of reinterpreting in light of their personal social preferences. They are making bad law.
Antagonism isn't always bad. Standing up to a bully is antagonistic. And the Christians in her community are being bullies as exhibited by their responses.
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Originally Posted by Knalus
The best way to get people to show their love and charity is to crap all over something they have a devotion to. Right.
"Get people to show their love and charity"? The whole point of love and charity is to show it when it's hard to do so. Showing love and charity when no one disagrees with you or when they aren't doing something you dislike isn't love or charity at all.
Sounds a lot like "hey, don't upset the bully, otherwise they won't show any love and charity".
When I was taught how to be a Christian, that involved showing love and compassion when I thought the other person was wrong, keeping my cool and seeing the other person's perspective rather than bullying and verbally abusing them.
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Originally Posted by Knalus
I'd be pretty sure that the majority of responses aren't motivated by religion, but by school spirit and representing one's school.
It's not what they're motivated by, it's the content and direction of the responses.
A Christian should make an effort to understand and appreciate that person's view, even if they disagree with that view.
It's like someone getting caught for drunk driving after someone calls 911 and reports them. Some people whine and complain about the cops that they're out to get them, that they're lazy bums. Or complain about busy-bodies with cell phones reporting every swerving driver they see.
But their ire is misplaced, it's the drunk driving law they have a problem with, not the cops or the anonymous caller.
All these people threatening the girl are directing their displeasure at the wrong place.
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There is no constitutional right to be free of religious expression.
There is a constitutional right to be free from state-sponsored religious expression. Clearly. The SCOTUS has stated so time and time again.
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There is a constitutional right to be free from state-sponsored religious expression. Clearly. The SCOTUS has stated so time and time again.
No there isn't. You are confusing a constitutional right with laws that have been extablished by a misinterpretation of the constitution. Unfortunately too many in the high court have been appointed because of their ideology rather than their loyalty to the original intent of the constitution.
No there isn't. You are confusing a constitutional right with laws that have been extablished by a misinterpretation of the constitution. Unfortunately too many in the high court have been appointed because of their ideology rather than their loyalty to the original intent of the constitution.
Antagonism isn't always bad. Standing up to a bully is antagonistic. And the Christians in her community are being bullies as exhibited by their responses.
"Get people to show their love and charity"? The whole point of love and charity is to show it when it's hard to do so. Showing love and charity when no one disagrees with you or when they aren't doing something you dislike isn't love or charity at all.
Sounds a lot like "hey, don't upset the bully, otherwise they won't show any love and charity".
When I was taught how to be a Christian, that involved showing love and compassion when I thought the other person was wrong, keeping my cool and seeing the other person's perspective rather than bullying and verbally abusing them.
It's not what they're motivated by, it's the content and direction of the responses.
A Christian should make an effort to understand and appreciate that person's view, even if they disagree with that view.
It's like someone getting caught for drunk driving after someone calls 911 and reports them. Some people whine and complain about the cops that they're out to get them, that they're lazy bums. Or complain about busy-bodies with cell phones reporting every swerving driver they see.
But their ire is misplaced, it's the drunk driving law they have a problem with, not the cops or the anonymous caller.
All these people threatening the girl are directing their displeasure at the wrong place.
Of course, I agree with the majority of what you said here. Most Christians aren't very good at being Christian. Just like most atheists aren't that good at being atheist, and almost no one can avoid being human. Just don't cry crocodile tears when you get persecuted for your religious beliefs and stand up for what you believe in. It sounds like more and more atheists think that success in something is to get "Christians" mad, so that they can then point to them and claim that Christianity is inherently bad. It's a cynical manipulation of human nature. Not so much what the girl did. What the bloggers who picked up on the story have turned it into.
This is especially true when it appears to many that Christianity isn't and wasn't the primary motivator in getting her fellow students upset at her. To give an example, that's like calling all Blackhawk or Cleavland Indians fans racist when they resist someone trying to change their teams name. Sure, there is probably someone in Cleavland trying to do this. They are likely brave for trying. And it's not to say that their point of view has no merit, or that the courts might agree with her from a purely legal point of view. But that person is likely going to receive death threats from idiots. And none of that affects whether or not that point of view is right, or correct, or true.
I agree that showing someone love and charity is best when you disagree with them. We all know that's also when it is the hardest. I know I haven't always been able to keep my cool when I read some of the hateful, spiteful, and angry things said about my faith on this board and in this thread. But I try. These responses this little girl received are not the result of the teachings of religion. They are the reason that religious teachings are needed. A 15 yr old kid spewing idiot tweets about a brave little girl, thinking that he is defending his school and faith, is in need of more church, not less. Cause if he went to church, he or she would never get a pastor teaching them that this is right. At least none of the many churches I've attended would say that.
My issue isn't the fact that this atheist should shut up and avoid antagonizing people because of what she believes in. Just don't expect others to roll over either. And when people act like bad people, it's not because they are christian that they are acting like bad people, just like it's not because she's an atheist that makes her want to piss everyone else in her school off. Even though it's clear that she did.
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I agree that showing someone love and charity is best when you disagree with them. We all know that's also when it is the hardest. I know I haven't always been able to keep my cool when I read some of the hateful, spiteful, and angry things said about my faith on this board and in this thread. But I try. These responses this little girl received are not the result of the teachings of religion. They are the reason that religious teachings are needed..
How do you harmonize the imbalance between the reactions of athiests and theists to an affront to their beliefs?
Are most people who don't believe in Santa Claus not good at it?
They display a seriously large amount of faith.
Plus, they tend to canonize more "saints" than even Catholics in recent years.
They've been getting preachier too, and are getting quite concerned with spreading their good news.
How do you harmonize the imbalance between the reactions of athiests and theists to an affront to their beliefs?
It's not "harmonizing the imbalance", it's cherry picking your responses. There's more of us, it's easier to find the exact response you are hoping for. I would go through this thread, and could probably find enough out of context responses that make atheists sound like pure evil, even though I know they aren't, and they don't believe in evil anyways. But I'm not going to, cause I have better things to do this weekend. Perhaps I'll get to it next week.
