Second organize crime will still make profit even if its legalize. Organize crime still makes profits of alcohol and tobacco and its legalized. So what makes marihuana different. Organize crime is still able to sell and obtain alcohol and tobacco at a lower rate than the regulated rate the government has provided.
Not saying you're wrong here, but do you have any articles on stories such as this? I've never really heard of organized crime making significant profit from alcohol sales other than prohibition in the 1920's, when it was actually deemed illegal by the US government. Even in that case it wasn't the consumption of alcohol that was illegal, it was the manufacture, sale, or transportation of it which was.
Prohibition of marijuana achieves a number of things, but few of them are of any benefit to society. Most, I would argue, are actually negative, primarily: (1) criminalization of behaviours (i.e. production, consumption) that cause little, if any, social harms; and (2) creation of a black market that mostly benefits criminal organizations.
Not only that, but the time and money spent policing and prosecuting people for marijuana offences could be much, much better spent on other priorities. I would think that the combined benefits of taxation, regulation, and de-criminalization would be a massive boon to public coffers.
Not saying you're wrong here, but do you have any articles on stories such as this? I've never really heard of organized crime making significant profit from alcohol sales other than prohibition in the 1920's, when it was actually deemed illegal by the US government. Even in that case it wasn't the consumption of alcohol that was illegal, it was the manufacture, sale, or transportation of it which was.
I think if you look at the history of most of our breweries and companies that make spirits you will find a pretty checkered past. Organized crime would keep doing what they are doing. The difference would be they would be paying some taxes. They would in effect be rewarded for what they extabished through illegal mean.
I think if you look at the history of most of our breweries and companies that make spirits you will find a pretty checkered past. Organized crime would keep doing what they are doing. The difference would be they would be paying some taxes. They would in effect be rewarded for what they extabished through illegal mean.
It's just the concept that doesn't make sense to me. Every province except Alberta has a government owned retail liquor monopoly.
I've never once encountered someone who had black market booze to sell me for cheaper than a liquor store could. I don't have any friends who know anyone selling booze under the table.
The government already regulates the crap out of it. I don't see where the margins are.
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Here is are the names of XXXX, XXXX and XXXX. These are successful people who do not do drugs of any kind. Point ended.
Also, "worse things such as cigarettes and alcohol" are very subjective and sweeping (for SeaBass, I might also add ignorant) statements.
You were the guy who started generalizing about pot users and their contribution to society. Don't mistake me making a joke about your ignorant statement as being in the same boat as you.
These are your words take a bow...
"Does anyone have any demographics figures on the achievements of marijuana users?
I bet regular users (at least once a day) are on average less educated, paid less, and overall crappier than your average Canadian citizen."
This is just a quick snip for tobacco.. Organize crime still benefit from tobacco. Like I said.. be educated before you say that marihuana should be legalize... I'll see what I can quickly find for alcohol. Then you can make whatever decision you want..
"Contraband tobacco is defined as any product that violates federal and provincial regulatory statutes pertaining to cigarette taxation, manufacturing, and distribution. Unfortunately, contraband tobacco markets have become increasingly common throughout the world over the past several decades, and Canada is no exception. Gabler and Katz (2010), in delineating the scope of the contraband tobacco market in Canada, noted five primary sources of contraband tobacco that have been identified by the RCMP and Criminal Intelligence Service Canada:
1
cigarettes unlawfully manufactured on Aboriginal territories in the United
States that border Canada (primarily the Akwesasne reserve in the
Cornwall region of south-central Ontario);
2
cigarettes lawfully manufactured in the United States, purchased primarily in
states with relatively low tobacco excise taxes (such as North Carolina and
West Virginia), and subsequently smuggled into Canada;
3
tobacco products manufactured under counterfeit brand names (primarily
in China);
4
tobacco products designated for sale on Aboriginal reserves (and thus
exempt from federal and provincial excise taxes) that are diverted into the
black market;
5
tobacco products stolen from convenience stores or trucks carrying
shipments of tobacco as freight (Criminal Intelligence Service Canada,
Here is a quick snip for alcohol. its not much.. but im not at home like I stated earlier.. This talks about tobacco and alcohol however its more UK and Europe however if you don't think it applies here.. your a fool.
"The smuggling of taxed goods, like tobacco or alcohol, has always been a lucrative cross-border crime business. The very high excises for tobacco in the United Kingdom since the 1990's has stimulated the already existing cigarette smuggling from the continent, particularly from Eastern Europe. The analysis of the investigations carried out by the Dutch customs showed that the Netherlands function as a gateway from the continent to the United Kingdom. However, part of the contraband remains in the Netherlands and is sold on the black market. The crime-entrepreneurs operating on this market rarely have a criminal background or connections with other contraband markets like drugs. Despite that while trading they developed crime-organisations, which again underlines the dynamic dimension of ``organising crime.'' Some international wholesalers developed extensive organised crime-networks. Two criminal trading patterns could be discerned: a Northern European ``trade belt,'' stretching from the Baltic to the British isles and a Southern one, in which the Iberian peninsula and Italy are more prominent. This indicates that this form of crosse-border crime should be addressed from the perspective of economic ``crime-regions.''
There may be a segment of society that would sooner track down a black market hooch/smoke dealer to save a few bucks, but I'd reckon the vast majority would far prefer to drive 5 minutes to their local 7-11 or liquor store whenever they want, and cough up a couple of bucks for the convenience. It'd be the same with marijuana, provided of course that the product they could get at the store legally would be reasonably comparable in quality and price to what is available illegally.
I don't think I know anyone who buys their booze or smokes on the black market. I'd wager it must be a microscopic portion of the total trade in each of those products.
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I think CB's point is here, which I agree with, is that by legalizing marijuana, who stands to profit.
The ones who are currently producing the product - illegally, with ties to organized crime. You're effectively giving criminals a legitimate business model, depending on how things get implemented.
I think CB's point is here, which I agree with, is that by legalizing marijuana, who stands to profit.
The ones who are currently producing the product - illegally, with ties to organized crime. You're effectively giving criminals a legitimate business model, depending on how things get implemented.
Okay? And if they're making legitimate money, you can tax them legitimately and collect revenue. And maybe, just maybe, they realize that violence is bad for business when you're dealing with a product you can get at 7/11. There will always be organized crime, but do you think that many growers wouldnt take the trade-off of paying taxes on their earnings as opposed to constantly worrying about the cops busting them?
This may also be interesting.. Sweden, who has historically had some of the harshest anti-pot laws of any first world country, has just voted to legalize it.
And here's the thing. If its sold as a prescription drug in a first world country, it should at the very least be available as a widespread medical option. You wanna control it like T3 or Vicodin, fine, but at least recognize that it isn't some demon plant.
__________________ ”All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.”
I think CB's point is here, which I agree with, is that by legalizing marijuana, who stands to profit.
The ones who are currently producing the product - illegally, with ties to organized crime. You're effectively giving criminals a legitimate business model, depending on how things get implemented.
I know this isn't the best rebuttle to that point. But you'd be surprised how many legitmate business are run by gangs, especially the Hell's Angels. Those guys have their hands in everything.
So technically the bar you go drinking at on the weekend may be profiting organized crime, and if weed is made legal, than that bar and marijuana would be the same thing....Legal things that organized crime is profiting off of.
edit: Pretty drunken post, not sure if it really makes sense.
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Just to add.. some businesses will buy these products because they are a cheaper rate from these organized crime.. they just choose to not look into it... its a good deal.. I will make profit. so they buy it..
METRO VANCOUVER - Longtime gangster and founder of the Independent Soldiers Randy Naicker was shot to death in Port Moody Monday.
Naicker, a convicted kidnapper once targeted by killers at his Vancouver halfway house, was gunned down at about 4:45 p.m. near St. Johns and Queens streets.
Police confirmed Tuesday morning that Naicker was the victim of the fatal shooting.
Vancouver police have been called in to investigate the death, Port Moody's second gangland shooting in a month. Port Moody Police have an agreement with the larger VPD to conduct murder probes.
Witnesses described seeing a masked gunman shoot Naicker several times, then get into a vehicle and leave the scene - a parking area off a laneway and outside a Star-bucks restaurant.
VPD Const. Lindsey Houghton said the incident appeared to be "a targeted gang-related shooting."
Naicker is on the right in the photograph below. The guy on the left in the picture was shot in Kelowna last year and is mentioned in this thread.
With that said, here is yet another indictment of the failed war on drugs that Canada will absolutely not adopt (and actually, has instituted stiffer penalties, the exact opposite of popular canadian opinion).
The emphasis on law enforcement has not achieved its stated objectives in terms of reducing the availability or rates of drug use, said British Columbia's Dr. Evan Wood, founder of the International Centre for Science in Drug Policy and an adviser on the report.
Those who suffer from drug addiction are stigmatized and treated as criminals, Wood said.
"I think we'll look back on that and see how foolish that was, and how that really created many more problems than anything else," Wood said.
"It is simply not sustainable to continue the current road that we're on."
Globally, fear of arrest drives those who use drugs underground and into high-risk environments, the report said. Conditions and lack of prevention measures in prisons lead to HIV outbreaks among drug users behind bars, it argues, adding that public funds are used for drug enforcement efforts when they could be invested in proven HIV prevention strategies.
Incarceration has been identified as a risk factor for contracting HIV in Canada, the report noted. And a 2011 Canadian study has shown that the greater the number of times that an HIV-infected person is incarcerated, the less likely that person is to adhere to antiretroviral therapy.
...
Quote:
British Columbia, which is highlighted in the report for its public health approach to injection drug users and HIV, is the only jurisdiction in Canada where both rates of new HIV infections and AIDS deaths among drug users are declining, Wood said.
This is due in part to such programs as methadone paired with antiretroviral therapy, syringe exchanges, Vancouver's Insite supervised injecting site, and a heroin prescription trial that's still ongoing, Wood said.
"From a public heath perspective, when you look across Canada, B.C, has done something different and has really driven down the public health consequences of drug use," Wood said.
While a decision last fall by the Supreme Court of Canada opened the door for more supervised injection sites, Vancouver's Insite is still the only legal supervised drug injection clinic in North America.
So some of the most forceful voices against the war on drugs are former high-level officials of the very countries that have long been at the forefront of that war. That alone speaks volumes.
Yet as a commission report released today details, the evidence speaks even louder. Indeed, the report, titled The War on Drugs and HIV/AIDS: How the Criminalization of Drug Use Fuels the Global Pandemic, demonstrates not only that we have lost the war, but that we risk losing ourselves if we continue to fight it.
Ironically, some of the evidence comes from the very groups most supportive of the war. For example, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, which continues to favour aggressive drug law enforcement, reports that as the war increased dramatically over the last 30 years, so too did the supply of illicit drugs.
In fact, the global supply of illicit opiates increased by more than 380 per cent between 1980 and 2010. Furthermore, according to the U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy - the "drug czar," an enthusiastic drug warrior - the price of heroin in the U.S. decreased by 80 per cent between 1981 and 2002, while its purity increased an astonishing 900 per cent. These changes occurred despite an increase of 600 per cent in the drug czar's budget.
There have been 4 gang related, seemingly targetted shootings in the last two weeks in Metro Vancouver.
The violence IS getting worse.
Last edited by Flash Walken; 06-26-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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no government will ever stop Marijuana from being used, ever. As someone that is extremely knowledgeable about the subject all I can say is the fact that it's illegal makes it almost easier to get it. There are ways to attain large amount of pot for less than $200, this is all a giant waste of everyone's time. If someone wants pot they will get it, end of story. It's going to get to the point where it's so cheap and easy to get the government will be forced to legalize it. The amount of people growing in their own homes for personal use is much, MUCH, higher than most people understand.
no government will ever stop Marijuana from being used, ever. As someone that is extremely knowledgeable about the subject all I can say is the fact that it's illegal makes it almost easier to get it. There are ways to attain large amount of pot for less than $200, this is all a giant waste of everyone's time. If someone wants pot they will get it, end of story. It's going to get to the point where it's so cheap and easy to get the government will be forced to legalize it. The amount of people growing in their own homes for personal use is much, MUCH, higher than most people understand.
As far as things getting cheaper the only way that will happen is if they make it legal or lower the punishment. If they continue to jail people for growing the money will always be there, just like if the new Omnibus bill is passed prices will most likely rise with stiffer penalties.
For people growing in their homes it is estimated that 1 in 100 homes in BC have some form of grow-op in them. The problem will never go away and the Kelowna RCMP have admited that if they busted a grow-op every day for a year they wouldn't even put a dent in the problem. They feel that when one is taken down two are put up. The more their enforce the law it seems growers are just multiplying in the hopes that just one grow can keep going.
The biggest reason is an average grower can grow a pound of marijuana for $50-100 and then they turn around and sell it from anything from $1200-2000. The mark up is amazing and that's only because it's illegal, the government is doing this to themselves being foolish enough to think they can stop it.
The War on Drugs was lost before it even started! And the government wrote a blank cheque to organized crime when it started.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by henriksedin33
Not at all, as I've said, I would rather start with LA over any of the other WC playoff teams. Bunch of underachievers who look good on paper but don't even deserve to be in the playoffs.
well it's cheaper in that the quality has increased drastically over the past 10 years so the same garbage skunk weed you'd get 10 years ago would cost you nothing now. It was hard to get and high quality stuff was extremely expensive a decade ago, now it's ridiculously easy to get and much much cheaper.
