Individual Income Poll

[freedogger]

Originally Posted by KTown

I've consulted for one company now over 5 years. I've seen this company go from 250 people to 50 people and back to 200+ now. Yet they kept me over staff people during the down turn, so I am not sure it is in my best interest to move around for an extra $5.00 an hour and rebuild the relationships that I currently have with my existing contracts. I've hit 2800 hours this past year.

Consulting for one place for five years straight? Be careful that CRA doesn't re-classify you into a Personal Services Business:

"A business carried on by a corporation will generally be a PSB if the following two tests are met:

• The individual performing the services (or someone related to the person) owns 10% or more of any class of shares of the corporation, and
• Without the use of the corporation, the individual would reasonably be regarded as an employee of the person or partnership paying a fee to the corporation."

http://www.bdo.ca/library/publicatio...s/2004-03a.cfm

I'm assuming you invoice this company above and are not an employee. If not, disregard my comment. These rules are a pain for any consultant in Calgary from what I've seen (myself included).

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by freedogger

Consulting for one place for five years straight? Be careful that CRA doesn't re-classify you into a Personal Services Business:

"A business carried on by a corporation will generally be a PSB if the following two tests are met:

• The individual performing the services (or someone related to the person) owns 10% or more of any class of shares of the corporation, and
• Without the use of the corporation, the individual would reasonably be regarded as an employee of the person or partnership paying a fee to the corporation."

http://www.bdo.ca/library/publicatio...s/2004-03a.cfm

I'm assuming you invoice this company above and are not an employee. If not, disregard my comment. These rules are a pain for any consultant in Calgary from what I've seen (myself included).

There are a few places in town that were very badly abusing that rule. One of those places had numerous warnings from the CRA about what they were doing (the "employer" of the personal services corporation would owe back CPP/EI to the tune of millions). In order to keep the flexibility they like having an all contract IT department, they just outsourced the whole lot.

[chemgear]

A thread necro, but I always like stats/numbers - there are some good numbers in this article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stor...res-taxes.html


I can't seem to link the "images" but it breakdown the income brackets a bit more along with the respective contributions to the total tax base.

Our ~28% here over $100,000 is more like ~6% overall across Canada.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by chemgear

A thread necro, but I always like stats/numbers - there are some good numbers in this article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stor...res-taxes.html


I can't seem to link the "images" but it breakdown the income brackets a bit more along with the respective contributions to the total tax base.

Our ~28% here over $100,000 is more like ~6% overall across Canada.

But again, it's not like 28% of CP'ers earn over $100 000. It's just 28% of this poll, in which high earners were the most likely and eager to respond to.

I think we need a new poll, finding out which salary earners are more likely to respond to a poll asking how much money you make. I'm guessing the $100 000 guys are somewhere in the vicinity of 100%, and it goes down from there.

[MoneyGuy]

I still can't believe that there are more members here in the $100K+ category than any other, and that nearly three in 10 are in that group. Also that the median income is about $74,000, which is what the numbers appear to say. Maybe there are some liars or the lower earners don't want to be speak up.

[HPLovecraft]

CP is run by oil barons.

[Kybosh]

Meh, any CP poll that I've seen has zero correlation to any other reported poll. I attribute this to two reasons:

1) Big economic power houses like Toronto or Calgary will skew results compared to national averages. Most posters obviously live in or around Calgary.
2) Everyone lies like crazy on the internet. Zero accountability = rampant lies.

[Ozy_Flame]

It's apparent - everybody here is coincidentally a Bilderberger.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I still can't believe that there are more members here in the $100K+ category than any other, and that nearly three in 10 are in that group. Also that the median income is about $74,000, which is what the numbers appear to say. Maybe there are some liars or the lower earners don't want to be speak up.

The poll should be broken out more:

$100,000 to $150,000
$150,000 to $200,000
$200,000 to $250,000 and so on.

Regarding the artilcle just posted, it should be mandatory reading for the proletariat.

Its also why its hard to budget in the USA in some ways . . . . . with most revenue coming from such a narrow source, any hiccup in their lives, either up or down, causes tremendous variance in collectibles while expenses, of course, could remain fairly static.

If the hiccup is to the upside for a few years, politicians love to spend the extra dollars and then are usually unable to cut those expenses when the hiccup occurs to the downside, like 2009 when the USA saw Federal tax revenues collapsing by one-third.

The proletariat living and dying by the sword of the rich.

Lastly, a guy with $1 million in the bank and a $500,000 house fully paid for, would probably be able to maintain his capital, according to modern portfolio theory, taking 4.5% to 5% from it in any given year, meaning his retirement income, assuming no external pension besides CPP, might be something like $60,000.

So, there's a fairly common example of a normal Joe, retired millionaire who is hardly elite. That's something the article doesn't discuss.

The answer should be to look for ways to make it more predictable in good times and tough times and to match expenses towards that predictability.

Then maybe our lives would be blessedly less exciting than they've been the last few years.

Cowperson

[HelloHockeyFans]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Meh, any CP poll that I've seen has zero correlation to any other reported poll. I attribute this to two reasons:

1) Big economic power houses like Vancouver, Toronto or Calgary will skew results compared to national averages. Most posters obviously live in or around Calgary.
2) Everyone lies like crazy on the internet. Zero accountability = rampant lies.

Toronto (finance center of Canada) and Calgary (oil) are economic power houses, but Vancouver is far from an economic power house. Vancouver is near the bottom, if not the bottom, for average family income I believe in Canada.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

Toronto (finance center of Canada) and Calgary (oil) are economic power houses, but Vancouver is far from an economic power house. Vancouver is near the bottom, if not the bottom, for average family income I believe in Canada.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm

Not the bottom, but certainly lower end of the spectrum.

But then again, we all know every household in Vancouver has extra undeclared drug income.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

Toronto (finance center of Canada) and Calgary (oil) are economic power houses, but Vancouver is far from an economic power house. Vancouver is near the bottom, if not the bottom, for average family income I believe in Canada.

Exactly. People in my identical position (same company, level, etc) in Vancouver make thousands less, but have to pay much much higher costs of living. So while I can own a home and live comfortably off my salary, they're all renting and not saving nearly as much.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Exactly. People in my identical position (same company, level, etc) in Vancouver make thousands less, but have to pay much much higher costs of living. So while I can own a home and live comfortably off my salary, they're all renting and not saving nearly as much.

I edited my post for accuracy.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by chemgear

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm

Not the bottom, but certainly lower end of the spectrum.

But then again, we all know every household in Vancouver has extra undeclared drug income.

I think Vancouver's numbers are dragged down by the fact that there's probably more poverty there than in a lot of other cities. Because there is simply no way that Victoria provides higher (or even the same) income for skilled professionals than Vancouver does even though it has a median income that is 15% higher.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I think Vancouver's numbers are dragged down by the fact that there's probably more poverty there than in a lot of other cities. Because there is simply no way that Victoria provides higher (or even the same) income for skilled professionals than Vancouver does even though it has a median income that is 15% higher.

But Victoria has lots of gov't, which provides lots of well paying but lower skilled jobs. That pulls the median up. Adding 1000 corporate lawyers at 300k per year pulls the mean up much more than the median.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by chemgear

A thread necro, but I always like stats/numbers - there are some good numbers in this article:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stor...res-taxes.html


I can't seem to link the "images" but it breakdown the income brackets a bit more along with the respective contributions to the total tax base.

Our ~28% here over $100,000 is more like ~6% overall across Canada.

Kind of mind blowing over 50% of Canadians make 0-$30k and ~74% make under 50k...


*edit* oh but I guess that's individuals not families correct? So if a married couple both made 25k, they at least share costs on everything... oh so and then extending that does that mean the 52% include children and dependents?

[kevman]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I still can't believe that there are more members here in the $100K+ category than any other, and that nearly three in 10 are in that group. Also that the median income is about $74,000, which is what the numbers appear to say. Maybe there are some liars or the lower earners don't want to be speak up.

I'm not that surprised. What is the median income in Calgary? I thought I saw somewhere that median household income was ~$90k/year. Don't know how that translates in to individual income.

Besides, I reckon the majority of CP posters are white collar workers with too much time on their hands at work. $74k/year is about what your base salary right out of school as an engineer working for a producer would be. Add in bonuses, more experience etc. and it's not that hard to believe that the oil industry is doing it's part to bring the average up of everyone else.

Really what I'm saying is: it's an anonymous poll - what's the point in lying?

[Kybosh]

Everytime I taught a course with engineering students I always thought to myself "The companies in Calgary are crazy for offering these newbie idiots 75k/yr to start". . . . but that's what happens.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I think Vancouver's numbers are dragged down by the fact that there's probably more poverty there than in a lot of other cities. Because there is simply no way that Victoria provides higher (or even the same) income for skilled professionals than Vancouver does even though it has a median income that is 15% higher.

Toronto and Montreal's numbers are even lower than Vancouver's. My guess is that the large immigrant communities are lowering the average of these cities substantially.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by kevman

I'm not that surprised. What is the median income in Calgary? I thought I saw somewhere that median household income was ~$90k/year. Don't know how that translates in to individual income.

Besides, I reckon the majority of CP posters are white collar workers with too much time on their hands at work. $74k/year is about what your base salary right out of school as an engineer working for a producer would be. Add in bonuses, more experience etc. and it's not that hard to believe that the oil industry is doing it's part to bring the average up of everyone else.

Really what I'm saying is: it's an anonymous poll - what's the point in lying?

Well, my thinking is that the demographics here are an over-weighting to younger folks, with a lot of people who are pre-20s or in their 20s, so starting their careers or in university. I know the typical salary in Calgary is high, but I don't think the people who answered this poll is an accurate picture of the city as a whole, for whatever reason.

If the household median income is $90K, in many cases that's two people.