The NBA . . . . . gone and forgotten

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

Brandon Roy's career is officially over. Thankfully, Greg Oden accepted a 1 year deal from the Blazers.

Portland is so cursed.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Bush league move by management.

The league has to let the GM's do what they think is best for their teams, they can't veto a trade because they "feel it is not in the best interest of the league".

Way to make the relationship between players and owners even more hostile with that decision. Now you have a group of players who are all stuck with teams that they know tried to trade them.

The league are the owners. They can veto the decision of their GM anytime they feel like. Just like Feaster can't make a deal without Edwards approval(or so the story goes).

[valo403]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Bush league move by management.

The league has to let the GM's do what they think is best for their teams, they can't veto a trade because they "feel it is not in the best interest of the league".

Way to make the relationship between players and owners even more hostile with that decision. Now you have a group of players who are all stuck with teams that they know tried to trade them.

The league owns the Hornets. This is a completely unique situation.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

The league are the owners. They can veto the decision of their GM anytime they feel like. Just like Feaster can't make a deal without Edwards approval(or so the story goes).

Originally Posted by valo403

The league owns the Hornets. This is a completely unique situation.

I may have been confused but I thought the trade was nixed during the league approval process.

If the trade was nixed as part of the league owning the team the GM should have been informed their GM to not take any trade offers for Paul before it even got this far.

I still think the reasoning for nixing the trade is B.S., if you are the league owning the team the only reason the trade should be nixed if it was not in the best interest of the team, the league should not be managing New Orleans with the best interest of the league in mind.

Nixing the trade was not done in the best interest of the Hornets who will now lose him for nothing at the end of the season, the Hornets were getting three good players and and 1st overall pick and that is a pretty good return.

Nixing the trade was done to save face for the ownership group and the NBA who went into negotiations trying to eliminate starts being traded to big markets from the small teams.

Had any of those small teams built a winner like Oklahoma is trying to do, or San Antonio was successful in doing the stars would have stayed. They are just protecting the owners from their own ineptitude in valuing players and building good teams.

Article from Simmons on the subject
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...-nba-christmas

[Jason14h]

The Hornets will be much better loosing Paul for nothing at the end of the season, instead of getting 4 starting players !

It sure was fun watching the Raptors last season. I would have hated if they got 4 players for Bosh!

[moon]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The Hornets will be much better loosing Paul for nothing at the end of the season, instead of getting 4 starting players !

It sure was fun watching the Raptors last season. I would have hated if they got 4 players for Bosh!

Who says they still can't trade him?

And in the NBA they probably would be better off losing Paul for nothing, sucking for a year and getting a stud player with their pick than adding the 4 average to below average guys they get in the awful Paul deal. They aren't getting a single quality player and are just taking LA and Houston's garbage in order to dump a great player.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The Hornets will be much better loosing Paul for nothing at the end of the season, instead of getting 4 starting players !

It sure was fun watching the Raptors last season. I would have hated if they got 4 players for Bosh!

These four players don't make NO's even remotely better. They are not a young superstar. All that trade does is add some older vets that make them mediocre while adding tons of salary. They would actually be a luxury tax team and have gotten virtually zilch for the future.

Couldn't think of a stupider way to try and attract a new owner.

Not to mention the idiotic state the NBA is in with players dictating what teams they go to.

Owners should have locked them out for years on end and gone for a complete NFL setup on salary.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by moon

Who says they still can't trade him?

And in the NBA they probably would be better off losing Paul for nothing, sucking for a year and getting a stud player with their pick than adding the 4 average to below average guys they get in the awful Paul deal. They aren't getting a single quality player and are just taking LA and Houston's garbage in order to dump a great player.

How could they now trade him?

Vetoing this deal means the only option until at least the start of the season is that Paul stays in New Orleans.

The GM felt this was the best package available and pulled the trigger. If they allow another trade to go through now it will just mean the league was choosing where Paul went and was that the owners were colluding against other teams.

I don't see how anybody can justify this trade veto as a good move by Stern. Every member of the media is baffled by the decision, this move just tore apart his ownership group, and has league executives feeling like they are just puppets to what Stern wants.

As I said they didn't veto this trade from the position that the trade was not in the best interest of the Hornets, that would not have been an issue. The issue is that they vetoed the trade in the "best interests of the league" and that is a problem.

They didn't solve anything by blocking this deal, they made it worse. Howard and Paul are still going to end up in big markets at the end of the season, and they made the league look like a joke by trying to micro-manage how the GM's run the league.

The GM's of the league should revolt due to this decision because the trade did not break any of the rules the CBA had outlined yet it was rejected by the league so they could push Stern's agenda.

[Joborule]

NBA effed itself up. First they end their own lockout early without getting a hard salary cap; so superstar players are just gonna play for big markets rather than smaller markets when they're free agents. Good luck seeing those teams being competitive. They're gonna struggle to survive. And now they're putting themselves at even more odds with the players by vetoing trades. The BoG and commissioner haven't been doing a great job lately.

[North East Goon]

Whatever speeds up the death of the NBA is okay in my books.

[moon]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

How could they now trade him?

Trade him for an actual decent package not a pile of crap. The owners of the team did a smart thing in stopping a trade by the GM that would hurt the team in the long term and short term, that is what any owner should do when the GM is making an awful deal.

As I said they didn't veto this trade from the position that the trade was not in the best interest of the Hornets, that would not have been an issue. The issue is that they vetoed the trade in the "best interests of the league" and that is a problem.

I think it is in the best interest of the league that superstars aren't dealt for 5 cents on the dollar to big teams meaning that now only 5-6 teams have a shot at competing while the other teams end up as feeders to the big wigs.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by moon

Trade him for an actual decent package not a pile of crap. The owners of the team did a smart thing in stopping a trade by the GM that would hurt the team in the long term and short term, that is what any owner should do when the GM is making an awful deal.

I think it is in the best interest of the league that superstars aren't dealt for 5 cents on the dollar to big teams meaning that now only 5-6 teams have a shot at competing while the other teams end up as feeders to the big wigs.

Thing is that was probably the best package they were offered. What was a team going to trade for Paul? No small market team is going to offer a godfather package and give up great young talent because they know that Paul is just going to bolt to the New York or L.A. in the offseason anyways.

As I said if the "Owners" didn't want Paul traded they should have told the GM before trades were even offered that all trades needed to be ran past an "owner" first. Instead they set terrible precedent by using the league's internal trade approval system to Veto the trade.

It is rumored that 5 teams were offering a package for Paul and New Orleans GM felt this was the best package.

Lets look at the rumors:

Golden State: Curry or Monta Ellis + Ekpe Udoh
Boston: Rondo+
New York: Amare
L.A.: Gasol + Odom (Martin, Odom, Scola, NYK 1ST)
Clippers: Bledsoe, Aminu, Kaman, Minnesota's 1st round pick

Of these offers the only one that I think would be any better would be the Clippers deal because Minnesota's pick has lottery potential. Personally I would have taken that offer, and that offer probably doesn't get Vetoed.

If Stern and the owners really wanted to create a league where the big markets couldn't hoard all the talent they shouldn't have given up on the lockout so early and should have fought for a hard cap.

They allowed this to continue by continuing with a stupid luxury tax and even helped it along by allowing teams to take on more salary during trades then previously.

Allowing the small market teams to pay more to retain their own free agents means nothing because if these players get to a large market they will make millions more in endorsements anyways.

The league did this to themselves and now they are taking bushleague methods to try and prevent it from happening.

[moon]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It is rumored that 5 teams were offering a package for Paul and New Orleans GM felt this was the best package.

Lets look at the rumors:

Golden State: Curry or Monta Ellis + Ekpe Udoh
Boston: Rondo+
New York: Amare
L.A.: Gasol + Odom (Martin, Odom, Scola, NYK 1ST)
Clippers: Bledsoe, Aminu, Kaman, Minnesota's 1st round pick

All the offers there are better than the LA offer as NO gets younger and better talent in all those deals.

All the LA deal gives them is expensive crap that ensures they will be slightly below mediocre to bad for the next 5+ years.

At least with guys like Curry, Rondo, Bledsoe, Amare, they get relatviely young guys who are or have the potential to be elite guys.

Scola, Martin, Odom are decent 4/5th options on top teams but if these guys are going to be the base of your team going forward you are going nowhere very quickly. To trade a star like Paul and increase your salary is nuts.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by moon

All the offers there are better than the LA offer as NO gets younger and better talent in all those deals.

All the LA deal gives them is expensive crap that ensures they will be slightly below mediocre to bad for the next 5+ years.

At least with guys like Curry, Rondo, Bledsoe, Amare, they get relatviely young guys who are or have the potential to be elite guys.

Scola, Martin, Odom are decent 4/5th options on top teams but if these guys are going to be the base of your team going forward you are going nowhere very quickly. To trade a star like Paul and increase your salary is nuts.

Clippers trade is the best of the bunch by far since it gives you the best chance at a star who may actually play for you (Minnesota 1st).

The New York trade doesn't work because Amare will pout his way out of New Orleans. I have a feeling that the Rondo situation would probably be similar, as nobody wants to go from Boston to New Orleans.

I am not sure the Monta Ellis trade is better then Gasol +Odom, Curry would have been a better option but the Warriors reportedly removed him from trade negotiations.

I think the reason New Orleans wanted the Houston/L.A. trade is becuase it gave them some decent players that would probably actually be okay with playing in N.O. and a draft pick for the future. Scola, Miller, and Odom are decent 3/4/5 guys, and it gave them the NYK pick which they could use to maybe move up picks at the draft.

I agree that it was crazy for N.O. to take on more salary, they should have been dumping Salary one way or another in that trade.

[SuperMatt18]

Some backtracking now as Stern releases what he should have said in the first place, had he come out with this reason to start instead of stating "the best interest of the league" things might have gone better during this decision.

Releasing this now just seems like he is trying to cover up for what was the real reason and that was them not wanting another star traded to a big market after they just had a lockout to try to help prevent that.

Plus I am still not sure why Jac Sperling would not have been the one who vetoed the trade if he makes the decision in consolation with the league office, instead of it getting to the league approval process before it was vetoed.

In a statement released Friday, Stern said the "final responsibility for significant management decisions lies with the commissioner's office in consultation with team chairman Jac Sperling."All decisions are made on the basis of what is in the best interests of the Hornets," Stern said. "In the case of the trade proposal that was made to the Hornets for Chris Paul, we decided, free from the influence of other NBA owners, that the team was better served with Chris in a Hornets uniform than by the outcome of the terms of that trade."

Outspoken Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, who voted against the NBA's new labor deal, agreed with the league's reversal, saying it would have been hypocritical coming hours after the CBA was ratified."The message is we went through this lockout for a reason," Cuban said Friday on ESPN Dallas 103.3 FM's "Ben and Skin Show." "Again, I'm not speaking for Stern. He's not telling me his thought process. I'm just telling you my perspective, having gone through all this. There's a reason that we went through this lockout, and one of the reasons is to give small-market teams the ability to keep their stars and the ability to compete."

And in the same article Cuban makes it sound like it was pretty much to save face after the lockout, even though he does later state he agreed with the decision made by Stern.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/73...ba-sources-say

[trackercowe]

Wow, David Stern and the NBA are getting hammered on all the afternoon talk shows (specifically PTI and Around the Horn).

Some of the analysts are even calling for Stern's job. It would seem Stern and his Exec's made a huge error in judgement calling off this trade even if it was beneficial for the smaller market teams.

[bluejays]

My question is, where was Stern when the Raps traded VC?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by nik-

Portland is so cursed.

Indeed. Other Portland news today: Greg Oden suffers setback, may be another year away from returning.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/73...-deal-portland

edit: Oh, and Aldridge has had another episode of his heart condition, and received treatment for it today. Hopefully it won't be serious and he'll be back playing within a week.

[Drake]

The primary work on deal has been between Lakers and Hornets sides, sources say. Rockets still get Gasol, still move same parts. Odom to NO.

https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/145381074330058752

NBA wants Hornets to get younger talent, picks. One source says, "Still working through it all," and there could be resolution on Saturday.

https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/145382072880603136

Dwight Howard's agent has permission to speak to three teams, including Lakers, Nets and Mavericks about trades:

https://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/s...95747704156161

[octothorp]

So what happens if the trade still goes through, but with a return that fans and pundits believe is actually better for New Orleans? Any chance that this gets remembered as Stern just doing his job and getting the best deal possible for the league-owned team, or is the damage irreparable at this point?