Ongoing Calgarians complaining about pedestrian bridges thread

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If memory serves the theory is that he didn't want to be seen to going against his 'ol pal Bronco but also didn't want to vote for the project.

So he sat on the sidelines thus basically deciding how the vote would turn out through his inaction.

There's a lot of reasons why some people hate this project.

Hence the jersey shore comment, it was either that or accuse Druh Farrell of sucking up to him to get the bridge approved.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

And it would have been nice if local designers had been given a chance to get the work too.

Local designer have say over every basically other project in this city, institutional or private. it's not like they are shut out for everything....just look at all the terrible Gibbs Gage work around downtown. I'm glad they single-sourced this to a firm who was pretty much guaranteed to design something this city has never seen. There is real talent in this city, but let's be honest, there's nobody out there that could've matched Calatrava's level. The bridge is a marvel considering the constraints placed on it.

[JiriHrdina]

We can debate all of that and it is fair...but it is all part of the reason why there is so much resentment to the project. The handling of it has been terrible and the city's inability to effectively communicate their reasons behind things like the single-sourcing decision is part of that.

Even the retro-naming of the bridge to the Peace Bridge reeked of being a contrived attempt to get the public more on-side. (which isn't to say that I disagree with it being named that).

You could right a case study on how NOT to manage a controversial project based on this bridge.

There's been a series of mistakes and blunders in this...leading to where we are now. And if it is over budget and the city is on the hook - it ain't going away anytime soon.

[SebC]

Given the result of the St. Patrick's Island competition, I'm happy they sole sourced this one. At the very least, we should sole-source the bid evaluation to someone with a bit more flair.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by SebC

Given the result of the St. Patrick's Island competition, I'm happy they sole sourced this one. At the very least, we should sole-source the bid evaluation to someone with a bit more flair.

The best part about that is they picked a Calatrava lite ripoff

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Table 5

just look at all the terrible Gibbs Gage work around downtown.

Which things by them don't you like?

My knowledge is pretty limited here, but a couple things I've heard about them I like. The Banff Centre, 8th Avenue Place, that crazy Sait building.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Local designer have say over every basically other project in this city, institutional or private. it's not like they are shut out for everything....just look at all the terrible Gibbs Gage work around downtown. I'm glad they single-sourced this to a firm who was pretty much guaranteed to design something this city has never seen. There is real talent in this city, but let's be honest, there's nobody out there that could've matched Calatrava's level. The bridge is a marvel considering the constraints placed on it.

I'm guessing they went sole source to Calatrava because Bronco Or Farrell saw a book on a coffee table and stated that they just had to get him.

People on this board complain about the federal government sole souring the F-35's, but are blinded by the name of the architech that they suddenly don't mind sole sourcing it.

And Calatrava saw us coming a mile away.

He gave us a underwhelming design compared to his other stuff. He put specs in place so that it had to be built by his buddies and shipped over here.

The whole thing is utterly terrible.

I wouldn't have a trouble spending money on a signature piece if we had opened up the competition even beyond Calgary borders.

I took a look at that bridge, and honestly, maybe I'm old, but I don't see it.

It reminds me of the 80's design philosophy of less costs more.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Depends on who's paying for those welders and inspectors to be employed for two years right?

Not really. It's Calgarians, making money, which they can then spend other places in the local economy. There are tons of government funded infrastructure jobs done during recessions to keep people working.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm guessing they went sole source to Calatrava because Bronco Or Farrell saw a book on a coffee table and stated that they just had to get him.

Sometimes you can look at a resume and decide they're the best person for the job.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He gave us a underwhelming design compared to his other stuff. He put specs in place so that it had to be built by his buddies and shipped over here

sigh...

Given the limitations in design possibilities... no foot print in the river, height restriction due to the helipad near by... this design is rather remarkable.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yes but remember Jiri, in the name of artful expression only European's could build the bridge and properly weld it and then we'd have to ship it over here.

Canadians could have built/welded the bridge here in Canada (and I'm confident the extensive weld problems wouldn't have been an issue) but the Spanish fabrication company undercut everyone fairly heavily. They were picked because they were cheapest.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

We can debate all of that and it is fair...but it is all part of the reason why there is so much resentment to the project. The handling of it has been terrible and the city's inability to effectively communicate their reasons behind things like the single-sourcing decision is part of that.

Yep, no doubt. The process was ridiculous on a lot of levels, but hopefully people learned their lesson. The justification of the bridge and architect though is still sound in my mind.

Sure, not everyone will use it, the location is debatable, and it's not going to turn Calgary into Paris, but at the end of the day, Calgary has a pretty fantastic bridge for it's citizens to use, and your kids and grandkids won't give two craps about the process it took to make it happen....they'll just be glad it's there. Sometimes shaking things up with something new and stupid helps a city grow....just ask those Parisians.

[Bunk]

The bridge is there whether people supported it being built in the first place or not. We might as well stop beating the dead horse and enjoy what we have, which is an absolutely beautiful bridge. My wife and I drove by it today, she's a pretty tough critic about architecture, and was extremely impressed and I think most people will be.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Which things by them don't you like?

Hmm, almost all of them to be honest. Gibbs Gage's trick is to start out with a basic box and then tack on a bunch of useless metal crap and spires to try to make them look modern, that in the end just end up looking dated. They have some ok work, but imo, I think their services have been wasted on way too many high profile projects.

The nicest thing at SAIT is the Bing Thom parkade....he was actually supposed to do the rest of the campus, but was pulled off for some reason (I assume cost?). I'm not the biggest fan of the newer stuff....way too much tacked-on crap for my tastes. But that's one mans opinion.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The bridge is there whether people supported it being built in the first place or not. We might as well stop beating the dead horse and enjoy what we have, which is an absolutely beautiful bridge. My wife and I drove by it today, she's a pretty tough critic about architecture, and was extremely impressed and I think most people will be.

I don't disagree -at some point you have to move on.

But it seemed like there was a belief that silence on the issue meant that people were now "OK" with how the bridge was built now that they've seen it. That isn't the case for all.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

- Ill-fated bid to try and get the Expo (didn't cost a lot of money but still was dumb)

It screwed over Edmonton a little, so why the hell not, right?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm guessing they went sole source to Calatrava because Bronco Or Farrell saw a book on a coffee table and stated that they just had to get him.

C'mon, that's a silly comment, and you probably know it.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Canadians could have built/welded the bridge here in Canada (and I'm confident the extensive weld problems wouldn't have been an issue) but the Spanish fabrication company undercut everyone fairly heavily. They were picked because they were cheapest.

Another point for sole-sourcing!

Originally Posted by Table 5

Sometimes shaking things up with something new and stupid helps a city grow....just ask those Parisians.

Hehe, you mean the ones who hated the Eiffel tower?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by nik-

Sometimes you can look at a resume and decide they're the best person for the job.

Or you can look at one person's resume, hire them based on the name and wake up the next morning to find out you've been screwed.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He gave us a underwhelming design compared to his other stuff. He put specs in place so that it had to be built by his buddies and shipped over here.

The whole thing is utterly terrible.

I wouldn't have a trouble spending money on a signature piece if we had opened up the competition even beyond Calgary borders.

I'll be honest, Captain. When it comes to sales, army stuff, and general views on childhood discipline, you're the man with the plan. But when it comes to a architecture, I gotta say you have no idea what the hell you're taking about.