2011 NFL thread

[DropIt]

I rarely get to watch NCAA football, but I do know that things like the option, shovel pass and wildcat are all things that tend to be utilized a lot more in that league. I always figured that once a player was out of the NCAA and into the NFL that those plays were thrown out because they were ineffective against top league talent.
I guess that's why I am shocked at how Tebow and Co. have been winning by playing College football in the NFL, at least in my eyes.

It's hard not to get swept up though, cant say I really have one opinion favouring the other in terms of what i think of Tim Tebow, but he and his career will be fun to watch for the next few years

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The fact of the matter last night is that the Broncos defense won the game. The Jets scored only 13 points and committed a 7 point turnover. Everyone will focus on the last drive by Tebow but the fact is that the defense won the game for the Broncos.

Agreed. Its the same reason why Eli somehow won Super Bowl MVP for that one drive when clearly the real MVP was the Giants DL. Eli was a 50%, shaky passer that game. Justin Tuck had 3 sacks, highway robbery against him (not that he cared, I'm sure).

The Broncos are building a scary D out there. Von Miller is for real.

[Papi34]

Is it safe to say everyone would rather have Tebow behind center than Sanchez? i know i sure would, sure tebow doesnt throw great but at least he does something well. sanchez does nothing well.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

From the Jets point of view, how do you stop this offense and a QB that can't throw the entire game and then suddenly give up a 95 yard drive (where Tebow was involved in 92 of the 95 yards). Where was the breakdown?

I still can't believe they blitzed 9 on 3rd and 4.

All they had to do was keep Tebow in the pocket. FAIL.

The Pats are in the driver's seat again in the AFC East.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Papi34

Is it safe to say everyone would rather have Tebow behind center than Sanchez? i know i sure would, sure tebow doesnt throw great but at least he does something well. sanchez does nothing well.

I wouldn't go that far. Sanchez has at least some rudimentary passing skills. Both teams have been winning in spite of their QBs with great defence.

[St. Pats]

I know I'm impressed with the Bronco's coaching staff. I find myself really liking Tebow but then I always like guys that really compete. Really it's all I ask as a fan is that a player I'm giving up my time to watch gives it an effort. He runs hard, is intelligent and knows his limits as does the coaching staff.

He does throw some dang good balls as well along with the poor ones so I'm thinking a good QB coach and this guy will improve.

Meanwhile the coaching staff is doing a very good job.

IF I was a Bronco's fan I would be just lapping it up and enjoying the wins.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by troutman

I wouldn't go that far. Sanchez has at least some rudimentary passing skills. Both teams have been winning in spite of their QBs with great defence.

Sanchez IMO is a very average QB. IMO he's going to keep the Jets from ever being great but he's not a trainwreck like Grossman so he can be a caretaker behind a stellar defense. That will only take you so far as winning Superbowls with guys like Trent Dilfer is the exception not the norm.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sanchez IMO is a very average QB. IMO he's going to keep the Jets from ever being great but he's not a trainwreck like Grossman so he can be a caretaker behind a stellar defense. That will only take you so far as winning Superbowls with guys like Trent Dilfer is the exception not the norm.

The thing that set Dilfer apart in that category is his arm. It always had to be respected as he could burn you deep at any time.

Most of those game manager, protect the ball types are not strong armed QB's and Sanchez is no exception.

I don't think he is sub-Tebow though.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sanchez IMO is a very average QB. IMO he's going to keep the Jets from ever being great but he's not a trainwreck like Grossman so he can be a caretaker behind a stellar defense. That will only take you so far as winning Superbowls with guys like Trent Dilfer is the exception not the norm.

Ryan calling him "Sanchise" is classic. what a joke. with the Jets running backs hurt, they are in a bad place. Once they cant "hide" Sanchez behind the running game, then they get exposed big time. But as Rex says, they will win the Super Bowl though

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

The thing that set Dilfer apart in that category is his arm. It always had to be respected as he could burn you deep at any time.

Most of those game manager, protect the ball types are not strong armed QB's and Sanchez is no exception.

I don't think he is sub-Tebow though.

Yeah I think Sanchez's ceiling is probably similar to someone like Chad Pennington, and that might be generous because Pennington, by all accounts, was an incredibly smart QB.

And people wonder why I think teams in the top 10 need to stay far away from Matt Barkley.

[Pacem]

I'm a Broncos fan and I can't wait till Tebow is gone from the team.


He is not a good QB. Gimmick plays from the QB position will only last so long. The Broncos are a .500 team right now because of Fox and the D. I was glad when Fox was named coach because I thought for sure i'd never see Tebow starting for the Bronco's again.

I'm not enjoying the wins. Its ugly football. In 2 years, if that, the Broncos will have to rebuild the offense because the crap that Tebow does no longer works. The goal is always to win the Super Bowl. I don't think Tebow will ever be Super Bowl bound, I see no point in attempting to develop him as a NFL starter. His second year in the league and i've see absolutely zero improvement on his ability to throw even the simplist of passes. One good thing about his crappy throwing ability is that he wont throw many INTs because so many of the balls he throws are so bad that no one is able to catch them. Going to be hard to convince any decent WR to come here with Tebow as QB. Wouldn't be able to develop a WR, any young wideout wouldn't get enough balls thrown their way to even have a chance at showing or improving their skills.

I love what is going on with Denvers D. The D has been a train wreck in years past. Its a shame the offense is being set back by allowing this gimmick player continue being a QB. Kordell Stewart was one of the best gimmick QB's. At least he could throw the ball above the level of a high school player. The year he did really well? He learned to sit in the ####ing pocket and throw the ball. I don't see any hope in Tebow throwing at or near a 60% completion rate and racking up 3000 yards. He is having a hard time completing 50% of his passes.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Papi34

Is it safe to say everyone would rather have Tebow behind center than Sanchez? i know i sure would, sure tebow doesnt throw great but at least he does something well. sanchez does nothing well.

I think I'll just stick with Matt Leinart. I was originally going to use that as a joke, but after I typed it in I realized that it might actually be true.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

I know I'm impressed with the Bronco's coaching staff. I find myself really liking Tebow but then I always like guys that really compete. Really it's all I ask as a fan is that a player I'm giving up my time to watch gives it an effort. He runs hard, is intelligent and knows his limits as does the coaching staff.

He does throw some dang good balls as well along with the poor ones so I'm thinking a good QB coach and this guy will improve.

Meanwhile the coaching staff is doing a very good job.

IF I was a Bronco's fan I would be just lapping it up and enjoying the wins.

The smartest move in that last drive was emptying the backfield and throwing 5 receivers into patterns down field, most defenses right now will do the standard drop into zone to cover all of those receivers because the assumption is that Teebow should be able to complete a pass at that level. Your basically rushing 4 against 5. Teebow does do one thing well, besides running, I think he's very good at reading coverages and picking up on Blitzes. On every play last night in that final drive he recognized where the blitz was coming from and went the other way, combine that with not doing what young QB's do and thats forcing the ball to make something happen.

There are a few positives to Teebow's game, he's quick and agile for a big man, and I think he's very smart.

But a QB coach isn't going to be able to fix those horrible mechanics of his.

[Sylvanfan]

Give the Bronco's staff credit they've figured out a way to make just enough plays on offence to stay in games and win them with Teebow at QB. Mock it all you want, but when you play tough defence, and don't turn the ball over, and do the job on special teams, you will stick around the game. Let Teebow hang around, and he seems to be able to find ways to win.

But screw Teebow, people should be talking about Von Miller. Reminds me of another #58 who drew me to being a Chiefs fan in the first place. With him and a healthy Dumerville, the Bronco's can make life miserable for opposing QB's. Fox is no dummy, he'll have that Bronco's D up to snuff, than it's a matter of getting an offence that does enough. After all...he got a team to the Superbowl with Jake Delhomme at QB.

[MissTeeks]

This gave me a chuckle this morning:

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah I think Sanchez's ceiling is probably similar to someone like Chad Pennington, and that might be generous because Pennington, by all accounts, was an incredibly smart QB.

And people wonder why I think teams in the top 10 need to stay far away from Matt Barkley.

because they are the exact same people...right?

I just do not understand this line of thinking at all...cause it makes no sense whatsoever. Just because two guys go to the same school (and have had different HC's no less) doesnt mean they have any kind of similarities at the pro level...if that was the case, then every team in the NFL would be drafting Michigan or Cal or Tennesee QB's only.

In the same vein they would never ever draft from" Washington or LSU or Florida moving forward....and again with the "USC" Qb thing....they have more frickin QB's in the NFL than any other school...period. So in some sort of convoluted way of thinking, that means teams should avoid them?

Its beyond ridiculous.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Give the Bronco's staff credit they've figured out a way to make just enough plays on offence to stay in games and win them with Teebow at QB. Mock it all you want, but when you play tough defence, and don't turn the ball over, and do the job on special teams, you will stick around the game. Let Teebow hang around, and he seems to be able to find ways to win.

But screw Teebow, people should be talking about Von Miller. Reminds me of another #58 who drew me to being a Chiefs fan in the first place. With him and a healthy Dumerville, the Bronco's can make life miserable for opposing QB's. Fox is no dummy, he'll have that Bronco's D up to snuff, than it's a matter of getting an offence that does enough. After all...he got a team to the Superbowl with Jake Delhomme at QB.

Agreed....dude is an absolute beast. It's funny because watching him last year at A&M it was more than apparent his game would transfer nicely to the pro's. After it was clear that Newton was going 31 i remember the talk being all about who the Broncos should take and so many were going on about dareus and Jones and some others, and IMO it was obvious that Miller was a guy you simply couldnt pass on...he is a playmaker and a difference maker...period.

A lot of credit should go to former packer coach Mike Sherman as well for this guy because if not for Sherman intervening with some tough love in Millers early A&M days, its just as likely he would have squirreled away his talent being a dummy as a youth as it would of been him making the NFL.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by transplant99

because they are the exact same people...right?

I just do not understand this line of thinking at all...cause it makes no sense whatsoever. Just because two guys go to the same school (and have had different HC's no less) doesnt mean they have any kind of similarities at the pro level...if that was the case, then every team in the NFL would be drafting Michigan or Cal or Tennesee QB's only.

In the same vein they would never ever draft from" Washington or LSU or Florida moving forward....and again with the "USC" Qb thing....they have more frickin QB's in the NFL than any other school...period. So in some sort of convoluted way of thinking, that means teams should avoid them?

Its beyond ridiculous.

I'm not trying to slag USC as a program. I think Carrol did a tremendous job of coaching his players and his program often made his offensive players look much more talented than they were. And if you don't think there's a tendency for certain schools to produce QBs that generally don't succeed at the NFL level, then I don't know what to say. There are some easy examples of this, such as Notre Dame (I realize Montana played at Notre Dame but look at the QBs to come out of there since), Florida (under Spurrier), Houston, and Cal (excluding Rodgers).

Of those three QBs in the NFL, how many of them have lived up to there draft position? I'm not saying Barkley is destined to fail because of this, just that history shows us that USC's skill position players tend to be a little overrated coming out of college. That being said, top 10 picks don't have the same risks associated with them that they used to so he could be worth a shot.

And yes, if LSU, Washington, Florida, etc. had three QBs that were recruited by the same coach and all produced results that were below what was expected of them, I would say the exact same thing.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Pacem

I'm not enjoying the wins. Its ugly football.

That sounds like the Oiler fans that used to come here and make fun of how boring the Flames 2003-2004 team was. They'd rather lose pretty than win ugly. It's a disgusting stance, in my view. Why even be a fan if you can't let yourself enjoy successes?

Originally Posted by Pacem

In 2 years, if that, the Broncos will have to rebuild the offense because the crap that Tebow does no longer works.

No, they will have to replace the QB. The offense is young and has not been built around Tebow. They may be running plays around Tebow's strengths, but the offense is not a throw away when the time to move on from Tebow comes. They have the 2nd youngest OL in the NFL and one that is playing at a pretty high level. A very nice young stable of receivers and two rookie TE's that they are very high on. There's a lot to like about the Broncos offense that has nothing to do with Tebow.

Originally Posted by Pacem

The goal is always to win the Super Bowl. I don't think Tebow will ever be Super Bowl bound, I see no point in attempting to develop him as a NFL starter. His second year in the league and i've see absolutely zero improvement on his ability to throw even the simplist of passes. One good thing about his crappy throwing ability is that he wont throw many INTs because so many of the balls he throws are so bad that no one is able to catch them. Going to be hard to convince any decent WR to come here with Tebow as QB. Wouldn't be able to develop a WR, any young wideout wouldn't get enough balls thrown their way to even have a chance at showing or improving their skills.

He was a first round draft pick. Maybe a mistake, but you have to see what he has. Bottom line. As for him holding back the rest of the young players, I would rather they learn to win unselfishly than learn how to lose with Kyle Orton and his depressing body language. Orton was a top 10 QB last year, but whenever they got behind or things didn't go their way his body language said I give up. Toxic.

Originally Posted by Pacem

I love what is going on with Denvers D. The D has been a train wreck in years past. Its a shame the offense is being set back by allowing this gimmick player continue being a QB. Kordell Stewart was one of the best gimmick QB's. At least he could throw the ball above the level of a high school player. The year he did really well? He learned to sit in the ####ing pocket and throw the ball. I don't see any hope in Tebow throwing at or near a 60% completion rate and racking up 3000 yards. He is having a hard time completing 50% of his passes.

Kordell Stewardtwasn't a gimmick QB at all. He was a strong armed passer with great mobility. He had a great motion and release and could throw the ball a mile. He just wasn't a great decision maker.

Tebow will be gone soon enough, I suggest you try to enjoy whatever good comes with his time in Denver. I know I have decided to do just that and I am far fom being a Tebow guy.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Kordell Stewardtwasn't a gimmick QB at all. He was a strong armed passer with great mobility. He had a great motion and release and could throw the ball a mile. He just wasn't a great decision maker.

Stewart could also punt fairly well. Anyone remember him filling in when Zastudil was injured years back?