Gary Mar wants private health care in Alberta

[Azure]

I realize that, which is why you need to add a balanced 'private' option. What is wrong with allowing doctors to commit 80% of their time to the public system, and 20% of their time to the private side?

I'm not exactly sure WHICH solution we should use, but I do know that the two-tier option is the best. We can still run a successful universal system even with private care.

And we need user fees. There is absolutely no doubt that people abuse the system. $10/visit.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by Azure

I realize that, which is why you need to add a balanced 'private' option. What is wrong with allowing doctors to commit 80% of their time to the public system, and 20% of their time to the private side?

I'm not exactly sure WHICH solution we should use, but I do know that the two-tier option is the best. We can still run a successful universal system even with private care.

And we need user fees. There is absolutely no doubt that people abuse the system. $10/visit.

with regards to user fees, would CPers support a sliding scale for user fees. there are many chronically ill people who would simply not have the funds to pay user fees. the other concern with user fees, is that it may prevent people from seeing their family doctors for "simple" problems which in turn end up costing the system even more. i guess i'm curious, is there any literature to suggest that user fees make a difference?

[Azure]

I wouldn't have a problem with chronically ill people being completely exempt from user fees.

Hell user fees might not even be the best option, but there has to be something in place to stop the obvious abuse of the system.

Hate to sound racist, but where I grew up, there was a huge problem with Natives constantly going to the hospital for every single problem you can imagine. None of them pay taxes, nor do most of them even attempt to get a job. If you go across Canada you will find lots of people like that, and while some do have a need for healthcare, many still abuse the system. And because of it, my wait time on an appointment I booked a month in advance is increased, which increases the wait time for the next person, and on and on until the last person has to wait hours for a simple check up.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by Azure

I wouldn't have a problem with chronically ill people being completely exempt from user fees.

Hell user fees might not even be the best option, but there has to be something in place to stop the obvious abuse of the system.

Hate to sound racist, but where I grew up, there was a huge problem with Natives constantly going to the hospital for every single problem you can imagine. None of them pay taxes, nor do most of them even attempt to get a job. If you go across Canada you will find lots of people like that, and while some do have a need for healthcare, many still abuse the system. And because of it, my wait time on an appointment I booked a month in advance is increased, which increases the wait time for the next person, and on and on until the last person has to wait hours for a simple check up.

don't get me wrong, i think user fees need to be in the discussion. my question would be, do they make a difference and do they result in a net saving. i would be curious to see literature on this point.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

I realize that, which is why you need to add a balanced 'private' option. What is wrong with allowing doctors to commit 80% of their time to the public system, and 20% of their time to the private side?

I'm not exactly sure WHICH solution we should use, but I do know that the two-tier option is the best. We can still run a successful universal system even with private care.

And we need user fees. There is absolutely no doubt that people abuse the system. $10/visit.

Is there any evidence to support that people are abusing the system? I'm asking for evidence other than anecdotal "I sat in the waiting room and everyone else there was faking it"

From my limited time in the medical system I can say that people are routed to Emergency at times to get specific testing and such. So while the guy sitting there isn't near death he needs medical attention and that is the only place to get it, or hes been directed there by a doctor. As far as people going to their doctor too often they often have little choice. My son had about a dozen ear infections in his first two years of life; he would get sick and we knew what it was but you still have to go in for a prescription every single time. Its just the way the system operates...a user fee would not deter these cases and frankly most people who are sitting there for a few hours are there for something legitimate.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Slava

Is there any evidence to support that people are abusing the system? I'm asking for evidence other than anecdotal "I sat in the waiting room and everyone else there was faking it"

From my limited time in the medical system I can say that people are routed to Emergency at times to get specific testing and such. So while the guy sitting there isn't near death he needs medical attention and that is the only place to get it, or hes been directed there by a doctor. As far as people going to their doctor too often they often have little choice. My son had about a dozen ear infections in his first two years of life; he would get sick and we knew what it was but you still have to go in for a prescription every single time. Its just the way the system operates...a user fee would not deter these cases and frankly most people who are sitting there for a few hours are there for something legitimate.

Would be interesting to see hard facts, but as with human nature when something is "free" people take advantage

[Slava]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Would be interesting to see hard facts, but as with human nature when something is "free" people take advantage

There will always be that element though, you can't base policies for everyone on the lowest common denominator.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Azure

Hate to sound racist, but where I grew up, there was a huge problem with Natives constantly going to the hospital for every single problem you can imagine. None of them pay taxes, nor do most of them even attempt to get a job. If you go across Canada you will find lots of people like that, and while some do have a need for healthcare, many still abuse the system. And because of it, my wait time on an appointment I booked a month in advance is increased, which increases the wait time for the next person, and on and on until the last person has to wait hours for a simple check up.

How is this abusing the system? Just because someone has a different perspective on when they should see a doctor doesn't mean they are abusing the system. Abusing the system means they're gaining something extra from it. Why are they doing it? Just to hang out in hospital waiting rooms to read the free magazines?

And if you've got an appointment and have to wait, isn't that the fault of the doctor's office and not the people who you claim are abusing the system?

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

How is this abusing the system? Just because someone has a different perspective on when they should see a doctor doesn't mean they are abusing the system. Abusing the system means they're gaining something extra from it. Why are they doing it? Just to hang out in hospital waiting rooms to read the free magazines?

To get the prescription drugs, duh...

[Cactus Jack]

I grossly dislike Mar. Now that I live somewhere where the good healthcare is private, I can tell you how much I dislike the system - and i'm someone that can afford the good stuff. It's very, very difficult for almost any country to not compromise the quality of health care for the vast majority of its non-rich population. I'd say nearly impossible. And for countries like France and England, their system are not sustainable and each year get short on resources.

Honestly, just find a way to cut wait times in Canada and we're golden

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

Honestly, just find a way to cut wait times in Canada and we're golden

Easier said then done. Unless we cut out the old people.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by Cactus Jack

Honestly, just find a way to cut wait times in Canada and we're golden

I apologize for banging on about this point, but the solution is increased access to primary care. Obviously, that's not an easy problem to solve and it will take some time to see the results. Sadly, our government officials (and the majority of the public for that matter) are more concerned with measures like ER wait times and MRI wait times. These are all a function of peoples access to primary care. If you improve that vital step, everything eventually falls in line.

[MoneyGuy]

Vote for Doug Horner. Problem solved.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Vote for Doug Horner. Problem solved.