2011 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by flambers

I see if different, if the Jays can obtain Heath Bell by moving mid tier prospect(s) that is a good move.....

Jays need to get as many picks as possible to obtain as many high end prospects as possible.

When they are ready to "challenge" they can use the prospects as assets......

I don't believe the Jays will trade any high end prospects for this type of player....

But than you end up back to Zukes arguement that the Padres won't move Bell for lesser prospects. They'll just keep him and take the picks themselves, than move him for lesser prospects.

It's only if the Jays have a couple extra guys they don't consider high end, that the Padres view differently that something could possibly be worked out.

I still think the Jays starting staff still isn't set enough to go after a big name closer. They still need to find two more guys to back Romero and Morrow in that rotation. At that point they could look at the luxury of a proven closer. Until than, they might as well continue trying to develop their own, or find a second tier guy who does the job 80% as well as the big boys and costs less than half as much.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

But than you end up back to Zukes arguement that the Padres won't move Bell for lesser prospects. .

Folks are assuming Padres are looking for High end Blue Chippers. Personally I doubt it.

I mean high end as Lawrie, Stewart, Gose type of players...

Probably looking for mid tier prospects, I would not be surprised to see the Jays move one or two of those type of prospects.

AA is clearly motivated to add picks. To try to get "High End Prospects".

[moon]

Originally Posted by flambers

Folks are assuming Padres are looking for High end Blue Chippers. Personally I doubt it.

I mean high end as Lawrie, Stewart, Gose type of players...

Probably looking for mid tier prospects, I would not be surprised to see the Jays move one or two of those type of prospects.

AA is clearly motivated to add picks. To try to get "High End Prospects".

Why would the Padres want one or two mid tier prospects when they can keep him and get two picks in the upcoming draft?

Ignoring the fact that there are teams that will gladly give up more than mid level prospects.

[secol]

adams is making bell (or vice versa) expendable which could be a reason. but they definitely have to get a return that is worth more than 2 picks or they'll obviously just sit tight

[flambers]

Originally Posted by moon

Why would the Padres want one or two mid tier prospects when they can keep him and get two picks in the upcoming draft?

Ignoring the fact that there are teams that will gladly give up more than mid level prospects.

Guess we will see, if he is traded and for what

[Caged Great]

Figures. I get a PM from Cheese asking if there's been any signings lately and I said no. Then about 20 minutes after that, Peter Mooney signed (21st round pick)

Apparently there are rumours that they have agreements with most of the top 25 round picks but can't officially sign them as most are over slot (they don't get announced til towards the end)

Pitcher

Kevin Comer - 1st Supplemental round - (High School)
Daniel Norris - 2nd round - (High School)
Jeremy Gabryszwski - 2nd round - (High School)
John Stilson - 3rd round - (College)
Thomas Robson - 4th round - ?
Anthony Chin - 5th round - (High School)
Anthony DeSclafani - 6th round - ?
Mark Biggs - 8th round - (High School)
Andrew Suarez - 9th round - (High School)
Aaron Garza - 10th round - (High School)
Nicolas Wiper - 14th round - (High School)
Cody Glen - 15th round - (High School) - Apparently has committed to college, not going to sign
Brady Dragmire - 17th round - ?
Luke Weaver - 19th round - (High School)
Joel Seddon - 20th round - (High School) - Turned down 1 million, likely not to sign
Aaron Nola - 22nd round - (High School)
Jerrick Suiter - 35th round - (High School)
Chris Cox - 39th round - Strange situation as he can hold out and then sign as a free agent with any team. Would take a lot to sign him.
Jake Eliopoulos - 43rd round - (No School)
Charlie Lamar - 49th round - (High School)

1B

Richard Prigatano - 16th round - (High School)
John Coy - 45th round - (College)

SS

Christian Lopes - 7th round - (High School)
Andrew Burns - 11th round - (College)
Peter Mooney - 21st round - (College) - Signed
K'Shawn Smith - 23rd round - (College)
Austin Nola - 31st round - (College)

3B

Matt Dean - 13th round - (High School)
Austin Davis - 47th round - (High School)

Outfielders

Dwight Smith - 1st Supplemental round - (High School)
John Norwood - 12th round - (College)
Derrick Lovelace - 27th round - (High School)
Jacob Wakamatsu - 48th round - (High School)

Signed

Musgrove (RHP - 1st round), Berti (2B - 18th round), Mooney (SS - 21st round), Rollins (LHP - 24th round), Arce (1B 25th round),
Atkinson (SS - 26th round),Vega-Rosado (SS - 28th round), Cole (RHP - 29th round), Patterson (1B - 30th round),
Pillar (OF - 32nd round), Champlin (RHP - 33rd Round), Munoz (C - 34th round), Sikula (RHP - 36th round),
Williams (RHP - 37th round), Taylor (RF - 38th round), Baligod (OF - 40th round), Barrett (SS - 41st round),
Davis (LHP - 42nd round) , Broussard (RHP - 44th round),Shane Farrel (RHP - 46th round), Brown (RHP - 50th round)

Unofficially Signed, but have dollar frameworks in place

Beede (RHP - 1st round), Anderson (OF - 1st Round),

[Trojan97]

23 K's in 47 ABs this month for Aaron Cibia. He's struck out at least once in every single game he's played in July.

The guy has been on a free fall at the plate since the start of June and his D is below average. He has nothing left to prove in the minors but he's a complete mess all around right now.

Is it too early to call up d'Arnaud for a few ABs?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If the Jays were in contention I'd probably say yes, but they are not. Growing pains are part of the process. Keep him up and let him play through it, as painful as it may be at times.

[zukes]

To clarify, if the Jays can trade mid tier prospects for bell, I say go for it! But I don't see Hoyer making that move.

As for that Aaron Cibia guy, his problems stem from his sore hand. Tak a look at when the decline started. In hindsight he should have taken some time to let it heal. It's not like Molina would have stolen his job, D'Arnaud wasn't as white hot as he is now, so he likely would not have been called up. Likely, the Jays would have called up Jerolman who would also not have been a threat to Arencibia.

[zukes]

So the Jays are 8.5 back of the Wild Card leading Yankees.

They are 3 games back from Tampa and the Angels and 2 games back of the Indians.

If they can catch those 3 teams in the next week or two, we may be looking at an actual payoff race! I know it sounds unlikely, but I think the Yankees are starting to come back to the pack. They have 3 guys in the rotation who could blow up on any given night (Garcia, fatty fat fat and Hughes), A-Rod is out for 4 - 6 weeks.

Oh God, I am doing it again!

8-2 over their last 10 (since that disaster 9th inning in Cleveland) has me dreaming.

[zukes]

To continue the dreaming, let's say the Jays stay hot and go 24-7 over the next 31, sounds unrealistic until you look at their next 31 games: Bolded are must win, some must be sweeps, series, IMO:

3 @ Texas
3 vs Baltimore
3 vs Texas
3 @ Tampa3 @ Baltimore
3 vs Oakland
3 vs Anaheim
3 @ Seattle
4 @ Oakland
3 vs KC

If the Yankess play on their current pace, the Jays would be 3 back of them. If the Yankees play .500 they would be in a virtual tie with this remaining schedule:

4 vs Tampa
3 @ Baltimore
3 @ NY Yankees
4 vs Boston
3 vs Baltimore
2 @ Boston
3 vs NY Yankees
4 vs Anaheim
3 @ Tampa
3 @ Chicago

[Flickered Flame]

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. The Jays are basically a .500 team but yet you are hoping they are going to go on a 24-7 run or something close. They are way too inconsistent imo to go on that kind of run. Inconsistent in hitting and pitching.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. The Jays are basically a .500 team but yet you are hoping they are going to go on a 24-7 run or something close. They are way too inconsistent imo to go on that kind of run. Inconsistent in hitting and pitching.

Pretty sure he understands that.... that's why he said to continue dreaming...

Hey at least the Jays are .500.. How about those A's...

[JustAnotherGuy]

To me the Blue Jays need to strengthen the following areas over the next season or two or three. In no specific order.

1. Third base (I assume Bautista best position is out field)
2. Second base
3. DH
4. Starting Pitching
5. Relief Pitching
6. Closer

If then can trade some prospects from a position of strength for Heath Bell and then sign him long term it would set the Blue Jays at closer for the next few years.

So I can see them at least talking to San Diego about trading for Bell.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

To me the Blue Jays need to strengthen the following areas over the next season or two or three. In no specific order.

1. Third base (I assume Bautista best position is out field)
2. Second base
3. DH
4. Starting Pitching
5. Relief Pitching
6. Closer

If then can trade some prospects from a position of strength for Heath Bell and then sign him long term it would set the Blue Jays at closer for the next few years.

So I can see them at least talking to San Diego about trading for Bell.

I guess it depends on Lawire. I think Lawrie gives you very good strength at 3rd or 2nd depending on where he eventually ends up. With Thames playing as well as he is, Batista may not be going back to the field as quickly as we think so I actually think 3rd base is looking pretty strong. I guess Lawrie may not pan out, but I really don't see that happening.
I would add CF to that list as well. Davis doesn't look like a full time CF in my books and while Snider has flashed some good things its a long ways from saying he is legit. Gose is so far away I think that its really hard to proejct.

[Flickered Flame]

Originally Posted by flambers

Pretty sure he understands that.... that's why he said to continue dreaming...

Hey at least the Jays are .500.. How about those A's...

It will be the same old story for the A's until they get themselves a new park and everyone from the owner on down has said that. I will say that if you take 3 starters from the Jays and put them on the DL, the Jays would be down where the A's are.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

It will be the same old story for the A's until they get themselves a new park and everyone from the owner on down has said that. I will say that if you take 3 starters from the Jays and put them on the DL, the Jays would be down where the A's are.

You can make a similar statement about almost any franchise in any sport. That is a cop-out.

The park think I will agree to a point, but only in that the lack of fans = lack of revenue = inability to be able to keep proven performers.

[Flickered Flame]

Yeah I don't disagree, I lost my long-winded response. The real problem is that park. It is so pitcher friendly, even with all the injuries the A's right now have the best (lowest) ERA in the American League and are 3rd in MLB. They really can't hit, the ball doesn't carry in the park and for whatever reason good hitters get picked up and then can't hit. DeJesus was an excellent hitter in KC, comes to Oakland and is having trouble hitting simple fastballs, its a real mystery.

[Bobblehead]

That's coaching - you already turfed one manager and the GM seems at a bit of a loss, from what I have read from some Bay Area reporters. But I guess this isn't the thread for that discussion.

[Flickered Flame]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

That's coaching - you already turfed one manager and the GM seems at a bit of a loss, from what I have read from some Bay Area reporters. But I guess this isn't the thread for that discussion.

I'm not sure how much longer Beane will be GM, kinda surprised he has lasted all these years especially with Frost waiting in the wings, who is highly touted around MLB.