Breaking Bad Season 4

[OilKiller]

Product placement...ugh. Guess they need to pay the bills someway.

[Yasa]

Denny's: Where murderous meth cooks go for a hot meal. Bring the kids!

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Denny's: Where murderous meth cooks go for a hot meal. Bring the kids!

There aren't a lot of restaurant chains where that would probably help improve the general public's opinion of your restaurants, but Denny's is probably one.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by OilKiller

Sure, but they already know how many subscribers they have. DVR numbers are silly IMO...especially for commercial networks.

But not on basic cable. I rarely watch shows live but never miss breaking bad (usually watch it later in the evening or the next day). If shaw cancels AMC I'd be furious, to the point I would complain. If enough people do that, Shaw picks it back up and has to pay AMC $0.50 per subscriber or whatever the fee is, so DVR numbers are important.

DVR numbers are not important for Network TV (NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC).

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Essentially the set up after that episode was that:

- Walt wants to get out
- Gale's Notes will lead to Police/DEA pressure


My bet for the season is that ultimately Hank helps figure out the cook, re-establishing his mental confidence, and the catch Gus; Jesse and Walt don't get caught and possibly get a new motorhome....

I forget if Gale knew Walt's name or not, but I think Gale's notes will implicate just Gale as being the master cook, and possibly Gus to some degree and take law enforcement off on some tangent away from Walt and Jesse for awhile.

Hank finds a rock that reminds him of the meth and gives him a sense of purpose?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Why did Gus kill Victor? well there was little other choice dramatically, it was either Victor or some combiniation of Jessie and Walt, which would hamper the season somewhat. Personally I think the writer painted himself into a bit of a corner.

I think it was a message from Gus that no one does anything without Gus saying so. Victor cooking was an affront to Gus. Only when Gus says so, are Walt and Jesse allowed to start cooking/cleanup. Aside from that, it didn't seem to have a point. His presence at the crime scene seemed trivial.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Wormius

His presence at the crime scene seemed trivial.

Considering how tightly Gus runs his ship, having one of his right hand guys sloppily show up at a crime scene where witnesses can identify him is as much of an affront as trying to cook without the go ahead from Gus. Not to mention Victor left his car at the crime scene.

He ####ed up last episode, and his presence at the crime scene could possibly come up later.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Considering how tightly Gus runs his ship, having one of his right hand guys sloppily show up at a crime scene where witnesses can identify him is as much of an affront as trying to cook without the go ahead from Gus. Not to mention Victor left his car at the crime scene.

He ####ed up last episode, and his presence at the crime scene could possibly come up later.

Only Mike and Gus knew that. I don't know what the purpose of the big display would have been for Walt and Jesse to see that, since they had no idea that Victor was at the crime scene or what Gus's motivation would be to kill Victor, except that since he had to kill Victor anyway, he might as well make a big deal about it to scare Walt and Jesse.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Only Mike and Gus knew that. I don't know what the purpose of the big display would have been for Walt and Jesse to see that, since they had no idea that Victor was at the crime scene or what Gus's motivation would be to kill Victor, except that since he had to kill Victor anyway, he might as well make a big deal about it to scare Walt and Jesse.

I'm pretty sure Jesse knew victor was at the crime scene since he flew out of the building and into the car. Walt probably suspected it when they arrived together. It doesnt matter though, because the display is to show how ruthless Gus is and what he will do to even trusted employees when angered.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I think it was a message from Gus that no one does anything without Gus saying so. Victor cooking was an affront to Gus. Only when Gus says so, are Walt and Jesse allowed to start cooking/cleanup. Aside from that, it didn't seem to have a point. His presence at the crime scene seemed trivial.

I thought it had more to do with how Gus had put Victor in charge of watching Walt and making sure he didn't do anything that would jeopardize their business before they could kill him. He was constantly watching Walt (as was shown and explained in the season 3 finale). The fact that Walt managed to arrange to have Gale killed is Victor's failure, hence Gus killing him.

Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with Victor being seen at the crime scene.

[trackercowe]

^ Very good point. I was sort of with the he killed him because he screwed up at the murder scene, but that theory holds more weight I believe.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

^^ I'm not convinced Ark's argument is more valid. I think there was a reason Mike asked Victor if he got noticed at the murder scene. There's a reason, we as a viewer were shown that little subtle part.

If that part doesn't happen, and Gus still kills Victor, we are left wondering why and that's when a theory like Ark's would be more valid IMO. If Victor doesn't get seen at the crime seen, or if Victor tells Mike that he wasn't seen, I belive he is still alive.

I'm totally of the mind he was killed because he was seen. I mean, why else would Gilligan have wrote that line into that scene and have Mike give him a look.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

^^ I'm not convinced Ark's argument is more valid. I think there was a reason Mike asked Victor if he got noticed at the murder scene. There's a reason, we as a viewer were shown that little subtle part.

If that part doesn't happen, and Gus still kills Victor, we are left wondering why and that's when a theory like Ark's would be more valid IMO. If Victor doesn't get seen at the crime seen, or if Victor tells Mike that he wasn't seen, I belive he is still alive.

I'm totally of the mind he was killed because he was seen. I mean, why else would Gilligan have wrote that line into that scene and have Mike give him a look.

Except Mike was completely shocked when Gus slit Victor's throat which would not have happened if he knew that Victor was already a dead man.

[trackercowe]

Since we're discussing this, let me pose another question from last season. Did Gale know that Gus intended to do away (kill) Walt from the conversation he had with Gus at his apartment?

I had this discussion with a few people while watching the episode, and I really think he must of been aware of the ramifications to the events. While Gus said it was Walt was dying of cancer, he really pushed Gale to find out the cooking method off just one attempt. No one could not realize Gus' murderous intentions from that conversation they had in the finale. Gale knew Gus was going to kill Walt, so I don't believe he was a saint himself.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

^^ I'm not convinced Ark's argument is more valid. I think there was a reason Mike asked Victor if he got noticed at the murder scene. There's a reason, we as a viewer were shown that little subtle part.

If that part doesn't happen, and Gus still kills Victor, we are left wondering why and that's when a theory like Ark's would be more valid IMO. If Victor doesn't get seen at the crime seen, or if Victor tells Mike that he wasn't seen, I belive he is still alive.

I'm totally of the mind he was killed because he was seen. I mean, why else would Gilligan have wrote that line into that scene and have Mike give him a look.

Because that line is realistic. In what world would Mike not ask Victor if he was seen? That's the sort of question that every criminal asks a fellow criminal after returning from the scene of a crime. It wouldn't make any sense for him not to ask that. Naturally, when Victor says "yes" Mike is going to give him a disapproving look. He's not going to say "Oh good, did Gale have anything decent to eat in the fridge?"

Victor realized that he screwed up by allowing Walt to successfully plan Gale's death. That's why he was so pissed off when he got back to the lab and that's why he made that desperate attempt at replacing Walt as the cook. It was an attempt to atone for his mistake. That probably made Gus even more furious. He screws up and then he insults the integrity of his business by attempting to do something that he is not even remotely qualified for.

[Machiavelli]

Did Mike even communicate to Gus that Victor was seen at the crime scene? I don't remember that happening.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Yasa

I'm pretty sure Jesse knew victor was at the crime scene since he flew out of the building and into the car. Walt probably suspected it when they arrived together. It doesnt matter though, because the display is to show how ruthless Gus is and what he will do to even trusted employees when angered.

Jesse just knew that Victor was at the crime scene, but not that he was seen by bystanders.

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

^^ I'm not convinced Ark's argument is more valid. I think there was a reason Mike asked Victor if he got noticed at the murder scene. There's a reason, we as a viewer were shown that little subtle part.

If that part doesn't happen, and Gus still kills Victor, we are left wondering why and that's when a theory like Ark's would be more valid IMO. If Victor doesn't get seen at the crime seen, or if Victor tells Mike that he wasn't seen, I belive he is still alive.

I'm totally of the mind he was killed because he was seen. I mean, why else would Gilligan have wrote that line into that scene and have Mike give him a look.

You're overthinking it.

Gus is badass, and wanted to remind Walt and Jesse just how badass he is. Message sent? "Do what I tell you to...nothing more, and nothing less. Otherwise, you end up like this."

[jhunt223]

Vince Gilligan has stated that there are two reasons Victor was killed. The first is that Victor was seen at the crime scene, which seems obvious and i don't know why anyone would question that, and the second was that Gus is a perfectionist and he was pissed off that Victor was naive enough to think that he could take over the cooking process, especially without Gus' say so. I can't find the link to the article, but it was somewhere on AMC's offical website.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Did Mike even communicate to Gus that Victor was seen at the crime scene? I don't remember that happening.

Not on air, but the entire phone conversation between Mike and Gus was behind the scenes.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Victor realized that he screwed up by allowing Walt to successfully plan Gale's death. That's why he was so pissed off when he got back to the lab and that's why he made that desperate attempt at replacing Walt as the cook. It was an attempt to atone for his mistake. That probably made Gus even more furious. He screws up and then he insults the integrity of his business by attempting to do something that he is not even remotely qualified for.

I think this makes more sense for Victor's death than just being seen at the crime scene, since Victor was probably not traceable back to Gus anyway.

His death now seems more likely because he really messed up Gus's grand plans and nullified the effort Gus put in with building the lab. Gale's death was a great loss to Gus. Now I am thinking that maybe the whole scene wasn't put on to scare Walt/Jesse/Mike but just that he was so pissed off at Victor for screwing up his plan.