It' Begins: Smear, Fear, Scary, Right Wing, US lovers

[Ace]

Liberals release new series of attack ads

The ads also:

• Attack Harper's comments to an American think-tank in Montreal when he called the U.S. a light and inspiration to Canadians and the world;
• Claim Harper will either have to raise taxes or run a deficit to pay for his campaign promises without running a deficit;
• Quote Harper on private health care in the provinces, saying "Why should I care? Why should the federal government how they're managed."
• Claim Harper and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe have a close relationship that will not benefit national unity;
• Claim that Harper once said Liberal ridings in the west of Canada are either dominated by recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada;
• Report comments Harper made to an American audience, advising them not to feel bad for Canada's unemployed, who receive "generous social assistance and unemployment assistance," and that Canada is content to become a second-tier social country;
• Quote a U.S. newspaper editorial that described Harper as the most pro-U.S. leader in the western world;
• Claim that Harper would increase military presence in Canada's cities.

so will canadians believe lies from liers?

[kermitology]

As far as I'm concerned they're all liars. But people don't vote for the ones that tell the truth because the truth is not something voters want to hear when they hear it.

All I want is strong leadership. No options on that front.

[MarchHare]

To be more accurate, it was the Tories who began the negative campaigning when they released smear and attack ads first, with their ads "They'll Go Neg" and "Entitlements" appearing last week.

Anyway, Canadians in general do not respond well to negative campaigning (the 2004 election is an anomoly to that), but I fail to see how the Liberals are doing anything unfair here. If it's acceptable for the Conservatives to attack the Liberal record (and it is), why is it all of a suddent bad for the Liberals to do the same? Of the list of items you posted, most of them are direct quotes from Harper himself...how can those be misconstrued as "lies"? The only ones that might be unaccurate are the claims that Harper would have to raise taxes or run a deficit to pay for his platform (this may or may not be true) and that Harper would form some kind of alliance with the Bloc (which he did in the past to bring down the Liberals, but I doubt the two parties have much in common if the Conservatives were in power). The rest of that list is all either part of the CPC platform or Harper's own words.

[Cheese]

LOL...Well lets look at this from a different angle shall we? IF Harper did say these things wouldnt you want to know why? IF he did say any of these things which ones would bother you, and which ones wouldnt?
IF you are sooooo tied up in the Conservative agenda that no matter what is said or done matters then they are no better than the Liberals IMHO.
IF of course any or all of these are made up or mixed up Im sure the Cons will have a smart retort...dont you?

Quite frankly IF the Cons do manage a majority, and DO try to make Canada or Canadian politics into RW US Politics they will lose my vote forever.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Ace

Liberals release new series of attack ads



so will canadians believe lies from liers?

Which ones specifically are lies? Some of those quotes from Harper are things he's actually said. The one about a US paper saying he's pro-US, I've never heard of it but it's pretty hard to fake something like that.

I'll never understand it. Harper is a right-winger, right? That's been pretty well established. When the Liberals say "Harper is a right-winger" the right-wingers say "they are lying" or "that's just fear-mongering".

[MarchHare]

The one about a US paper saying he's pro-US, I've never heard of it but it's pretty hard to fake something like that.

Here's the actual article, from the pro-conservative Washington Times:

http://washingtontimes.com/commentar...1526-4938r.htm

Why does President Bush hope Christmas comes a little late this year? Because on Jan. 23, Canada may elect the most pro-American leader in the Western world. Free-market economist Stephen Harper, leader of the opposition Conservative Party, is pro-free trade, pro-Iraq war, anti-Kyoto, and socially conservative. Move over Tony Blair: If elected, Mr. Harper will quickly become Mr. Bush's new best friend internationally and the poster boy for his ideal foreign leader.

And in the interest of fairness, I'll point out that Harper himself wrote a letter to the editor in response to that article (it's the second letter below):

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/200...478r_page2.htm

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by fotze

Just strong leadership? That's it. You must want a little more. I think Stalin was a pretty strong leader, but I'm no expert on the matter. Hitler, he didn't fata around either.

Nit pick will you fotze?!

Strong and uh.. just(?) leader.

And I'll actually debate that Stalin wasn't a strong leader, but the head of a ruthless state, and he was actually obsessively paranoid (the great purges). I won't debate Hitler.. that's opening up a can of worms.

[4X4]

Heh heh... Harper and Duceppe have a close relationship that will not benefit national unity...

I wonder if they've got a secret hidden agenda together that plans to bust up Canada. They are concocting some kind of plan to get Harper in power so that hte people of Quebec separate.
Sounds like a great plan for Duceppe...

As for Harper, I doubt he (or anyone for that matter) wants to be the PM during the separatioin of a province.




Regarding the comment about the Cons being the first ones to launch the attack, I disagree from an admittedly so-so informed viewpoint.

The cons' campaign from last election was platform oriented. They may not have had their platfor very well figured out, but that is how they ran the campaign. The Libs on the other hand, rand a smear campaign against the cons. They said little about what they would do or not do, and focussed on telling Canada why a vote for the cons was a bad vote. American style politics. Blech...

With this campaign, the cons realized that they can make no headway in central Canada unless they hawk their platform and also point out why the mistakes of hte Libs. And yeah, they did their share of this in the last election, but just not enough (I suppose).

Unfortunately for the Libs, their leader is nowhere close to the leader that Cretien was. Martin looks like a boy lost in the woods when he's confronted by a mic.

Martin is reaching into Teflon Jean's bag o' tricks, but just not using htem properly. He's got more ammo than Jean ever had, gay marriage, the CA's stance on the Iraq war, gay marriage, the cons' "fondness for Bush", gay marriage...

Well, I'm glad that hte Libs' armour has finally been dented. Change is soooo necessary. And Martin is just not PM material anyway.
Never thought I'd ever like Chretien more than Martin, but Chretien at least had a nutsack.



The funny thing about all this is how the comparison to Alberta politics. Fukkin Ralph. That guy needs to go. Giving raises a couple weeks after relection, running a campaign of "What? What you want? You want content? Look at our track record....."
Why not just flip the bird to Alberta, Ralph? You're only this popular because the Liberal Party of Alberta hasen't decided to change their name.

[Ace]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Which ones specifically are lies? Some of those quotes from Harper are things he's actually said. The one about a US paper saying he's pro-US, I've never heard of it but it's pretty hard to fake something like that.

I'll never understand it. Harper is a right-winger, right? That's been pretty well established. When the Liberals say "Harper is a right-winger" the right-wingers say "they are lying" or "that's just fear-mongering".

Definatly more fear mongering... , i meant to spawn discussion on if this tired old tactic is going to work again, but i guess too many sensitive people on this board...

Restated: "Will canadians believe these fear mongering claims...again?

The outright lies are the "deficit" claims. That would just be a guess, and then given that the liberals can't estimate their own budgets properly, a very uneducated one.

Equaling the conservatives to a different level of government in a different time period. (mike harris)

Stating that Stephen Harper is probably funded by the americans since he hasn't said who donated to his leadership campaign. I mean after all US Right Wingers have the money to do it.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Ace

Definatly more fear mongering... , i meant to spawn discussion on if this tired old tactic is going to work again, but i guess too many sensitive people on this board...

Restated: "Will canadians believe these fear mongering claims...again?

The outright lies are the "deficit" claims. That would just be a guess, and then given that the liberals can't estimate their own budgets properly, a very uneducated one.

Equaling the conservatives to a different level of government in a different time period. (mike harris)

Stating that Stephen Harper is probably funded by the americans since he hasn't said who donated to his leadership campaign. I mean after all US Right Wingers have the money to do it.

You call it "fearmongering", others might call it "campaigning". How can saying that he'll run a deficit be a lie? Who knows? He is making an awful lot of promises. It's not exactly outside the realm of possibilty that a conservative government in favor of big tax cuts can put the country in such a position.

If Harper turns around and says "no, the Liberals will run a deficit", would he be lying?

Will this tactic of "campaigning" work again? I don't know. Doesn't look like it actually.

And again, why is it that every time anyone points out that Harper is a right-winger, some says "that's just fearmongering"?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Ace

• Attack Harper's comments to an American think-tank in Montreal when he called the U.S. a light and inspiration to Canadians and the world;
• Claim Harper will either have to raise taxes or run a deficit to pay for his campaign promises without running a deficit;
• Quote Harper on private health care in the provinces, saying "Why should I care? Why should the federal government how they're managed."
• Claim Harper and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe have a close relationship that will not benefit national unity;
• Claim that Harper once said Liberal ridings in the west of Canada are either dominated by recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada;
• Report comments Harper made to an American audience, advising them not to feel bad for Canada's unemployed, who receive "generous social assistance and unemployment assistance," and that Canada is content to become a second-tier social country;
• Quote a U.S. newspaper editorial that described Harper as the most pro-U.S. leader in the western world;
• Claim that Harper would increase military presence in Canada's cities.

I really don't have a problem with any of that, including the surmise that cutting taxes could put Canada into a fiscal deficit position.

I did see one Liberal ad that said bold-faced Harper would dismantle the public health care system . . . . . I thought that was way over the top and fear-mongering.

Cowperson

[HOZ]

ALBERTA, REDNECKS, AMERICANS, HIDDEN AGENDA, CHRISTIANS, ALBERTA, AMERICA, AGENDA, HIDDEN, REDNECKS....BEWARE!!!!!!

Just remember to shut up and vote Liberal because they have more important things than to talk to us moronic, stupid, gibbled, waste of time voters.

[CaptainCrunch]

My gut feeling is that this is going to back fire on the Liberal's in a big way. It worked in the last election beccause the Libs had some credibility and a least a bit of moral authority to look back on thier years in power and say that they had done the best job for Canadians, and the Conservatives would tear that apart.

With the scandal's and investigations combined with the softening of the conservative issues, and the fact that Harpers platform is much more developed and a lot more appealing makes me think that the Libs are about to be punished for thier track record, and the fact that they come across as dishonest to the average Canadian.

The Libs might have signed thier national death warrant.

I think a house cleaning is coming

[calf]

Claim Harper and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe have a close relationship that will not benefit national unity

I wonder what the Liberals would do to help promote national unity?





...oh yeah

[Hack&Lube]

The thing is these attack ads are all based on truth. In earlier years, Harper was one of those writers who clearly advocated an Alberta Firewall and closer ties to the U.S., etc.

His closest advisor is Flanagan, a professor I had from the U of C who is pretty conservative and actually an American.

But you know what? I don't care. I'd rather choose Harper than the Liberals anyday. The Liberal attack ads aren't full of lies, but they are still just propaganda because what Harper advocated when he wasn't a political leader isn't what he'll advocate as a Prime Minister. It's obvious that the Conservatives realize they need to appeal to the middle and to build coalitions with other parties. That's why he kept pointing out in the debates how the Conservatives know they will need to cooperate and work with other parties, that they don't have a divine right to govern, and how he kept calling Duceppe and Layton his "Friends" right after they blasted into him on several occasions.

[duncan]

Originally Posted by HOZ

ALBERTA, REDNECKS, AMERICANS, HIDDEN AGENDA, CHRISTIANS, ALBERTA, AMERICA, AGENDA, HIDDEN, REDNECKS....BEWARE!!!!!!

Just remember to shut up and vote Liberal because they have more important things than to talk to us moronic, stupid, gibbled, waste of time voters.

Are you going to add to the discussion, or just pull out that crap each and every time this line of thought is introduced? Hey, I can do it too. Ontario, pinko, Liberal, stupid, sheep, anti-american, Liberal-crooks.........beware!!!!. Wow, that was fun and informative, lets do it again.......NDP, communists, snake oil salesman, pinkos, stupid, socialists, EVIL, stupid!!!!!!!!

I've seen a ton of smear coming from every party, it is unfortunately part of the package come election time. The newest ads that have been put out by the Liberals in Ontario, are purely fear-mongering.
"remember Mike Harris? Remember the 'common sense revolution'? Remember crumbling schools and closing hospitals? Remember the loss of public services? Remember increasing defecits? Do we want another Mike Harris?"
This may not be a wise train of thought, as people here either loved Harris, or hated him. Those that loved Harris, blame everything on Eves, his replacement. Those that hated him, are already well reminded of his record. The Liberals here have made positive improvements in Ontario. Locally, improvements have been made;
at the public school, where portables were replaced by actual class rooms.
at the hospital, where a million dollar upgrade to the building and equipment finally occured.
a new clinic was built, and 5 new doctors came to town, to get us off the under-serviced list.
and provincially, the budget was really balanced, without a raise in taxes.
However;
The Liberals showed that they weren't willing to go all of the way toward repairing how the province does business. Instead of putting key players in cabinet posts, such as former corrections opposition critic Steve Peters, who had 8 years of knowledge in the field into the Minister of Corrections, they placed a retired business manager in that post.
The Liberals made their adaptations to the new YCJA, creating neighbourhood tribunals, and alternative measures, to replace custody facilities. Judges are still allowing double credit for remand time, and shorter sentences, showing the Liberals as soft on crime.
The people around here remember Harris, but we also remember Cretian and Martin. We remember struggling beef farmers, we remember an election promise to eliminate the GST. Harris made his buddies wealthy, so did Jean. Harris lied to the public, so did Jean.
Harper wants the provinces to try to stand on their own. Is this such a bad thing? Harper will improve Canada-US relations, which can also have several positive aspects.

[flamingchina]

The liberals have already pulled the harper will put soldiers in our cities ad, you can still see it on CTV's site though

[Resolute 14]

Claim Harper will either have to raise taxes or run a deficit to pay for his campaign promises without running a deficit;

This one is my favorite. How exactly did the Liberals expect to find the money for their $30 billion in spending promises right before their government collapsed?

Hypocrite and Liberal are synonyms in Canada.

[Delthefunky]

I like what Rick Mercer said tonight... "Hopefully they're all lying because I dont think Canadians want to be paying for all there promises"

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I really don't have a problem with any of that, including the surmise that cutting taxes could put Canada into a fiscal deficit position.

I did see one Liberal ad that said bold-faced Harper would dismantle the public health care system . . . . . I thought that was way over the top and fear-mongering.

Cowperson

The biggest problem I have with this is that the general population will believe that cutting taxes will put us back into deficit. They don't understand macro-economics well enough to understand that it's more than that. They hear that businesses are facing tax breaks, and wonder why they can't have them and why the rich get richer, but don't see the correlation between that and Uncle Joe getting a new job.