Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[ken0042]

One thing I'm wondering; have they considered how to accept bills as payment? With the fare being over $5 they will likely see bills. I remember back when fares started approaching $1 many people wanted to just pay with a dollar bill; and there were issues with bills jamming the slots.

The other consideration might be some sort of receipt so that business travelers can expense it. If it comes down to a $50 cab ride they can expense; or an $8 bus ride out of their own pocket, I can tell you what will win out.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by ken0042

The other consideration might be some sort of receipt so that business travelers can expense it. If it comes down to a $50 cab ride they can expense; or an $8 bus ride out of their own pocket, I can tell you what will win out.

This is a really good point. I actually think it would be a good idea to get a couple of machines set up for bills/change/credit cards, and put them at the airport end of the route. Have it print out a perforated piece of paper, one side is the ticket, one side the receipt.

If business travellers don't get receipts and can't use their corporate cards, they're less likely to use the service.

(EG. I never stop at Tim's when I'm travelling on business, because my corporate card is a Visa which they don't take, and I'd feel like a tool submitting a $6 expense report.)

[Bill Bumface]

As mentioned previously, you have to buy the $8 pass from Mac's in the airport. Reciepts/cash are all taken care of.

[someguy51]

I read a cbc.ca article that said the airport bus is the normal $2.75 from downtown. If you catch the bus at the airport and go downtown it is $8.

It also said that if you have a day pass or a monthly pass you do not have to pay extra. So if you have a monthly pass, I don't think you have to pay anything. (other then your monthly pass)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...us-direct.html

[Bunk]

Day one on the Airport Bus - Nenshi's Innovation Fund Project:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Airport/5014258/story.html

[Jimmy Stang]

I don't personally foresee myself using the Airport BRT because I don't live or work near the route, my parents place is in Beddington and they provide parking and a shuttle of their own, and if I do park at the airport it is on the company tab.

I do, however, think that it will be successful. Whenever I travel for pleasure, I always check out my ground transportation options in advance. If I were a visitor to Calgary, paying $8 to get downtown in about 30 minutes or so is a bargain. As long as the service is well advertised/communicated, and the ticket purchase is easy, I think that people will use it.

Although many people often suggest that the LRT should go to the airport, I feel that the ridership/frequency is better suited for buses, especially considering the infrastructure cost of building a spur to the airport. LRT to the airport would be a luxury, and quite honestly, there are plenty of cities that get by just fine with a nice, efficient bus service. I think that the express airport bus service is a nice compromise.

[mykalberta]

Is there a reason why they wouldnt just increase the frequency from the CTrain instead of having a direct route with stops from downtown.

I cant see many people using it for work from downtown.

[Byrns]

I almost got run over by the new 300 airport bus today because he was going to run a red light. Did they hire the former airport cab drivers to drive them?

[billybob123]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Is there a reason why they wouldnt just increase the frequency from the CTrain instead of having a direct route with stops from downtown.

I cant see many people using it for work from downtown.

It takes nearly as long to take the 100 from McKnight to the Airport as to take the 300 from Downtown. Add in the 20+ minutes it takes to take the LRT to M-W station from Downtown!

I took the 100 to the airport to pick up a rental car. It seems to really go to the middle of nowhere (36 St/CHB is deserted!). If I were a traveller, I'd just take a cab or the other shuttle downtown rather than all that to get to downtown. This new route will hopefully entice people to take it... though tourists with big suitcases might have trouble navigating the bus.

[Ozy_Flame]

It's a new route; it, and the bus itself, will be adjusted accordingly.

I'm going to wait for BRT Service pack 1 before I take it.

[Jimmy Stang]

I think that being a direct route will be the biggest selling point. Even though I consider myself a smart traveller, and I could certainly get from A to C via B if I had to, being able to hop on one bus and get there directly is enticing. I can certainly afford to take a taxi, and sometimes I do, but I'd rather pocket the $50 difference (or whatever it may be) and put that towards food, wine, etc. The time-price-convenience trade off is quite good in favour of the new bus service, in my opinion. Essentially, it simply gives people another option, and I think that many people will utilize it.

[Tyler]

I work downtown and this is going to be great for me. Hop on it outside the office and head directly from work to the airport.

I can then take it home, jump back on the train and be home in minutes. Love it.

[Russic]

When I went to Toronto a few weeks back a bus from downtown to the airport was nearly $30 each way. Sure it was a nice bus, but if I could save $22 and take a welfare-wagon I'd be all over it.

Once we are able to stop the old ctrains from pumping out heat during the summer my list of Calgary Transit complaints should drop off quickly.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Russic

When I went to Toronto a few weeks back a bus from downtown to the airport was nearly $30 each way. Sure it was a nice bus, but if I could save $22 and take a welfare-wagon I'd be all over it.

Once we are able to stop the old ctrains from pumping out heat during the summer my list of Calgary Transit complaints should drop off quickly.

Geez..

Newark Airport to Bryant Park in Midtown Manhattan was $15 including tolls for the tunnel.

[Mass_nerder]

C-Train vs. The Sprawl
http://www.calgaryjournalonline.ca/m...-vs-the-sprawl

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

C-Train vs. The Sprawl
http://www.calgaryjournalonline.ca/m...-vs-the-sprawl

One reason Calgary spends more on roads and transit than other cities is we're growing faster than other cities. It costs quite a bit more to build a new train line or overpass than to just maintain the one you have.

As for increasing the number of transit trips, I think infilling the current LRT system with frequent streetcar type service would be a good idea. For example, in the NW a streetcar line up Nose Hill Drive starting at Scenic Acres/Silver Springs and connecting to the Crowfoot LRT, then up the hill to pick up people in Ranchlands, Hawkwood, Arbour Lake, and Citadel.

That would also be attractive for short trips, ie, people people going to the Safeway in Crowfoot.

Another potential route in the NW would be Bowness and Montgomery through to Banff Trail or University Station. Could stop at the hospitals too.

In the SW, a line that hit the Rocky View Hospital, Oakridge, Woodbine and connected to Heritage Station would be good. Maybe go across the river to Riverbend/Ogden. (Maybe not if those areas would be coverred by future SE LRT)

If we infill with permanent transit solutions, we can create higher density corridors throughout the city.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

As for increasing the number of transit trips, I think infilling the current LRT system with frequent streetcar type service would be a good idea. For example, in the NW a streetcar line up Nose Hill Drive starting at Scenic Acres/Silver Springs and connecting to the Crowfoot LRT, then up the hill to pick up people in Ranchlands, Hawkwood, Arbour Lake, and Citadel.

That would also be attractive for short trips, ie, people people going to the Safeway in Crowfoot.

Another potential route in the NW would be Bowness and Montgomery through to Banff Trail or University Station. Could stop at the hospitals too.

In the SW, a line that hit the Rocky View Hospital, Oakridge, Woodbine and connected to Heritage Station would be good. Maybe go across the river to Riverbend/Ogden. (Maybe not if those areas would be coverred by future SE LRT)

If we infill with permanent transit solutions, we can create higher density corridors throughout the city.

I agree that there should be more frequent feeder service, but I don't think streetcars would be the right tool, or at least the right prioritization of that tool in the near future. Maybe in the distant future.

Streetcars would be best implemented in existing high-density and high activity areas as circulators. We've been developing a more robust proposal for streetcars in the Beltline (using some combination of 10th, 11th, 12th Avenues, as well as a circle route or two to/from the CBD). Aside from that, a few other routes could work to/from areas such as 17th Avenue west, Marda Loop, Hillhurst/Sunnyside, etc.

Here's some maps of some proposed streetcar routes as part of William Hamilton's overall long-term transit plan.

[billybob123]

Streetcars seem like a good idea - but why streetcars rather than buses? Buses have the advantage that they can move around obstructions and veer "off course" if ridership demands it. I am sure there's benefits to streetcars - but I don't know what they are?

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by billybob123

Streetcars seem like a good idea - but why streetcars rather than buses? Buses have the advantage that they can move around obstructions and veer "off course" if ridership demands it. I am sure there's benefits to streetcars - but I don't know what they are?

Less pollution and noise?

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by billybob123

Streetcars seem like a good idea - but why streetcars rather than buses? Buses have the advantage that they can move around obstructions and veer "off course" if ridership demands it. I am sure there's benefits to streetcars - but I don't know what they are?

Originally Posted by Byrns

Less pollution and noise?

Yes, plus a couple other big advantages are:

1. Permanence - The permanency of the route (as opposed to a bus route that can be easily changed) is a factor in attracting development along the route. It shows an investment in the area.

2. Attracts more riders than equivalent bus service and capacity does due to rail bias. People are more likely to choose to take a rail mode of transit.

Here's an old post of mine that repeats some of this and goes over it in more depth. It was in response to a similar question.

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Well to start, each one can fill a much different role in the transportation network. Local vs. regional, long distance service, circulation vs. collection and distribution, etc. Streetcar systems usually take a role closer to that of buses than to LRT systems like the C-Train, so they are more often compared to buses when looking at advantages/disadvantages.

A few key advantages are:

- Can run in-street in mixed traffic using existing infrastructure.

- Much less costly than LRT, but more than buses

- Less noisy than buses and less odorous emissions

- Streetcars offer a smoother ride than buses

- Streetcars often have more capacity than buses.

- Has been shown to attract nearby development much more effectively than buses due to the permanency. Developers see it as the municipality making a long-term "investment" in the area and the route

- Has been shown to attract more choice riders than buses with same capacity and speed on same routes. This is due to a concept called rail bias, whereby people are more willing to take rail public transit than bus public transit if they have the choice. It is seen as a more attractive travel option.

As is often the case, other people have said it better than myself. Here's some links:

In depth:

http://www.railwaypreservation.com/v...agetrolley.htm

http://www.infrastructurist.com/2009...r-renaissance/

Concise:

http://www.cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Streetcar

The streetcar (or tram) wikipedia page also gives a good synopsis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram