Guns at home more likely to be used stupidly than in self-defense

[Slava]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

No, I was simply questioning the story given by the government, which I had every right to do. I said the initial reports sounded suspicious and I was right.

No, of course you had every right to question the initial story; wasn't implying that we should accept everything at face value. It just seems like a conspiracy theory sort of thing. This might not be the case, but I wouldn't think that someone with a fair amount of post-secondary education would fall prey to that sort of thing.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

Better than University of Creepy.

Is that where you're hoping your son goes?

[mikey_the_redneck]

LOL at all these people speculating that black market gun prices would price themselves out of existence.....

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Got any proof of this? You seem to just be stating your own personal opinions as fact here.

From MSNBC.

Mexican cartels are taking advantage of U.S. gun laws to buy thousands of weapons that are being used in an escalating drug war that has claimed more than 31,000 lives since late 2006, experts and law enforcement officials tell NBC News.
U.S. firearms agents estimate that around 80 percent of the weapons used by Mexican drug traffickers come from the United States, where cartel leaders are hiring Americans with clean records to make the purchases for them. In the past four years, Mexican authorities say they have seized 90,000 weapons from their nation's drug war.

"The cartels need their tools of the trade, which are the weapons, and they are coming to the U.S. to get those weapons," William McMahon of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told NBC News.
Authorities say the straw buyers are paid up to $200 per weapon and cite a recent case in Oklahoma City, where a former state narcotics agent pleaded guilty in such a gunrunning scheme.

Francisco Reyes, 29, was accused of paying two friends to buy dozens of firearms destined for Mexico, according to court documents. "They are being taken advantage of by these cartels and really are providing something that's going be used to kill someone in Mexico," said McMahon, adding that the cartels are specifically looking for high-caliber weapons

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

LOL at all these people speculating that black market gun prices would price themselves out of existence.....

That is what has happened in the UK, guns cost thousands on the black market. In Canada they cost hundreds, in the states less than a hundred.
Basic law of supply and demand.

[Calgaryborn]

I posted this last page but, I guess no one clicked on it:

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110...0-percent-myth

It pretty much shoots whole in the myth that America is responsible for the gun violence in Mexico.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I posted this last page but, I guess no one clicked on it:

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110...0-percent-myth

It pretty much shoots whole in the myth that America is responsible for the gun violence in Mexico.

No it doesn't, what it says is they don't believe that there is any proof that all the guns are from the US, despite the ATF's claims.

pop quiz, how many gun manufacturers are there in Mexico then?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No it doesn't, what it says is they don't believe that there is any proof that all the guns are from the US, despite the ATF's claims.

pop quiz, how many gun manufacturers are there in Mexico then?

The article didn't identify any manufacturers in Mexico. There is the rest of South America as well as direct/indirect sales from China. You pretend that America is the only source. You are wrong and don't have any proof that America is the primary source.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No it doesn't, what it says is they don't believe that there is any proof that all the guns are from the US, despite the ATF's claims.

pop quiz, how many gun manufacturers are there in Mexico then?

Yeah, ....you didn't really read the article.

It explains how guns from South and Central America are smuggled up into Mexico from the south, and how they import guns from China and they end up in the hands of criminals as well......

"This third type of weapon is fairly difficult and very expensive to obtain in the United States, especially in the large numbers in which the cartels are employing them. They are also dangerous to obtain in the United States due to heavy law enforcement scrutiny. Therefore, most of the military ordnance used by the Mexican cartels comes from other sources, such as the international arms market — increasingly from China via the same networks that furnish precursor chemicals for narcotics manufacturing — or from corrupt elements in the Mexican military or even deserters who take their weapons with them. Besides, items such as South Korean fragmentation grenades and RPG-7s, often used by the cartels, simply are not in the U.S. arsenal. This means that very few of the weapons in this category come from the United States."

I think there is a good argument to say that the 90% number could be exaggerated as political rhetoric.

That is not to say that the the U.S.-Mexico border is not a problem......they have neglected border security for many years now...plus illegals tend to vote Democrat...

[RougeUnderoos]

I don't know if most of the guns in Mexico are American made (and wouldn't doubt it) but I don't know if it matters either way.

Blaming gun violence on American manufacturers kinda stinks in the same way as blaming drug-related violence and problems in the States on farmers in Central and South America.

The people who are actually snorting the cocaine and shooting the guns are ultimately to blame.

Of course this simplistic analogy gets complicated by the fact that all the guns and the drugs and the whole mess is fueled by selling all the drugs in the States, but still...

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

That is not to say that the the U.S.-Mexico border is not a problem......they have neglected border security for many years now...plus illegals tend to vote Democrat...

Hmmmm...so what polling stations allow illegals to vote?

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Hmmmm...so what polling stations allow illegals to vote?

Google is your friend:

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Google is your friend:

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

Also featured in the link that you provided:

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Also featured in the link that you provided:

Its on the interwebz, gotta be true...Actually didn't read it, but I'm relatively sure that Arabs and Jews have been killing each other forever.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Also featured in the link that you provided:

Ok here is another article:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-104542-8488r/

It is pretty widely known that illegal immigrants can get away with voting.
What isn't known is how common it is.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Ok here is another article:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-104542-8488r/

It is pretty widely known that illegal immigrants can get away with voting.
What isn't known is how common it is.

That doesn't help your credibility.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Yasa

That doesn't help your credibility.

Why? I was just answering the question.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Why? I was just answering the question.

Because following up a debate point with "what isn't known is <an important piece of statistics>" doesn't help with your argument, and hurts the credibility.

I'm not for or against your position or denying the truth of the article, I'm just stating that omission of stats can make for a weak argument.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Because following up a debate point with "what isn't known is <an important piece of statistics>" doesn't help with your argument, and hurts the credibility.

I'm for or against your position or denying the truth of the article, I'm just stating that omission of stats can make for a weak argument.

I suppose it makes for a weakened argument. Unfortunately that important piece of Statistic information has never been gathered. What we do know is there is opportunity and one could also assume motivation.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Ok here is another article:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-104542-8488r/

It is pretty widely known that illegal immigrants can get away with voting.
What isn't known is how common it is.

Thanks for providing an answer but....
The Washington Times is a piece of crap right wing rag founded by the leader of a notorious cult. I found that out from the web too. I have heard its quite popular with the Birthers. (moron racists)