The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[flambers]

Originally Posted by lvsteven

Businesses do not open locations where there is no profit.

Really, why is there a team in Phoneix? Or in Atlanta?

Its been widely reported the Coyotes have never made a profit since they left Winnipeg.

If the NHL was after a "profit" they would transfer another team to Toronto.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by lvsteven

I could care what some Internet user thinks of me, nor should you care what I think of you.

Btw... I'm not exactly uncultured las Vegas born ignoramus of all things hockey. I'm born and raised in Canada.

Having a team in Winnipeg would be a fun novelty but after that wears out who says they can compete and stay in the leauge for the long run.

Businesses do not open locations where there is no profit.

But you can keep on dreaming of that. Hey maybe we can out teams in Regina and St. Johns newfondland while were at it!

After all, they love hockey there as much as anywhere in Canada, right?

I think a team in Winnipeg would be more than just a novelty. This isn't 1996, and it certainly isn't the economic condition from that year, either. The city has grown and evolved since then, and has a wealthy ownership group (TNSE) willing to invest in a franchise.

Here's the attendance percentages for home games (vs. building capacity)of all Canadian teams from the 2010-11 season:

Toronto: 102.9
Calgary: 102.8
Vancouver: 102.4
Edmonton: 100.0
Montreal: 100.0
Ottawa: 96.0

And now, Phoenix:

Phoenix: 71.3

What makes you think hockey in Winnipeg would be a novelty?

Given the improved economic conditions (including the strong Canadian dollar), the growth of the city and the popularity of the game north of the border (in fact, Manitoba has the 2nd highest attendance record in the AHL) and an already-established Jets fan base, they could definitely have the potential to be a successful franchise.

The only thing holding Winnipeg back could be the shortness of seating at the MTS Centre. Other than that, I fail to see how a franchise there would be worse off than in Phoenix.

I don't think you have a case here at all.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Darren Dreger

Ongoing negotiations to keep the NHL in Glendale. Atlanta is quickly becoming a real option for Wpg next season. More on TSN.ca soon.

[Jordan!]

That's pretty big from Dreger.. he doesn't dick around. Dare I feel some hope?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

That's pretty big from Dreger.. he doesn't dick around. Dare I feel some hope?

Only if you can somehow get another 6 or 7 thousand season tickets sold per annum and another 30 or 40 thousand casual ticket buyers.

If not you are just keeping the team warm for Quebec while they build an arena or KC or Ok in a couple of years.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

That's pretty big from Dreger.. he doesn't dick around. Dare I feel some hope?

No. Even if Atlanta moves to the Peg unless Hulsizer is willing to actually pay for the Coyotes the deal is still not getting done. When Hulsizer announces he will purchase the team with his own money then you can have hope.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

That's pretty big from Dreger.. he doesn't dick around. Dare I feel some hope?

No. It just delays the inevitable.

[OldSam]

There is zero chance Bettman will let the Coyotes leave Glendale until he decides to move them. Anyone ever hear him admit he is wrong? Thought not. He will push and push and keep them in Glendale because he wants it to succeed there, therefore it will, or the city and the club will go more broke than they already are. So they will continue with their creative accounting to ensure they stay there. They are going to call GWI's bluff, I guarantee it.

He has been playing Winnipeg all along. I feel so bad for the fans of that city. Tell Gary to stuff it and find some other city to play against his beloved southern teams. Thing is, until Quebec City gets going, he has no other option, so he keeps putting out his hope and they buy it.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

To me and others it's pretty obvious and doesn't require any hatred but keep pushing your mislead agenda.

No, what is "obvious" to many is that Phoenix is a failed market. Personally, I tend to agree with that view.

What is not obvious is that Bettman has somehow convinced 29 groups of super rich people to put their own money on the line to push a personal grudge against... who, really?

The latter is just the product of spite and blind hate, and is done to try and demonize the target of your hate.

Argue that it is a bad idea to try and stay in Phoenix, and I agree. But argue that the league is fighting so hard for the market over one man's grudge, and I will call you an idiot.

[Jordan!]

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/04/2...ng-to-peg-katz

Coyotes not coming to 'Peg: Katz

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

That's pretty big from Dreger.. he doesn't dick around. Dare I feel some hope?

What do you mean "hope"? All you've been doing is cutting everyone down and making smug remarks about how the Coyetes staying in Phoenix is a sure thing, and saying people are stupid for thinking otherwise.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by flameswin

What do you mean "hope"? All you've been doing is cutting everyone down and making smug remarks about how the Coyetes staying in Phoenix is a sure thing, and saying people are stupid for thinking otherwise.

I've been rough at times but I think overall i've fought my case pretty well and generally respectful.. not to Winnipeg but to those on the opposite side of the fence.

My main issue is the "Why" of it all, and not many in Canada or outside of this market know "Why" the team has lost money to this point but I don't think I can persuade anyone anymore.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

I've been rough at times but I think overall i've fought my case pretty well and generally respectful.. not to Winnipeg but to those on the opposite side of the fence.

My main issue is the "Why" of it all, and not many in Canada or outside of this market know "Why" the team has lost money to this point but I don't think I can persuade anyone anymore.

Then how do you plan to fill the stadium with a new owner? Getting a new owner is just a bandaid solution to a deep, fundamental problem. Him purchasing the team doesn't put butts in the seats. Winning does, and they did that this year, and they still couldn't fill the building.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by flambers

Really, why is there a team in Phoneix? Or in Atlanta?

Its been widely reported the Coyotes have never made a profit since they left Winnipeg.

If the NHL was after a "profit" they would transfer another team to Toronto.

I don't think you'll find many arguing that Phoenix and Atlanta are fantastic franchises. Its just that most believe Winnipeg is a crappy place to move them.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

My main issue is the "Why" of it all, and not many in Canada or outside of this market know "Why" the team has lost money to this point but I don't think I can persuade anyone anymore.

Dude.

They've been in Phoenix for what, 15 seasons? How many seasons have they made money? How many seasons have they lost 10MM+? 20MM+? 30MM+?

At what point do you stop putting the blame on the elusive "whys" and admit that the market is a piece of ****?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

I've been rough at times but I think overall i've fought my case pretty well and generally respectful.. not to Winnipeg but to those on the opposite side of the fence.

My main issue is the "Why" of it all, and not many in Canada or outside of this market know "Why" the team has lost money to this point but I don't think I can persuade anyone anymore.

We all know why, Phoenix isn't a hockey market and the US isn't really a hockey country. As to why americans like Basketball and Football more than hockey, god knows, hockey is a far better sport to my mind as someone who didn't grow up with any of them. The NBA has nothing as engrossing as last nights game.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Muta

Then how do you plan to fill the stadium with a new owner? Getting a new owner is just a bandaid solution to a deep, fundamental problem. Him purchasing the team doesn't put butts in the seats. Winning does, and they did that this year, and they still couldn't fill the building.

Muta.. I don't care if the team went 164-0 the past two years.. to expect casual fans to jump on this team emotionally with all the abuse and uncertainty is not realistic. Why is this so hard to understand? You know what sucks? watching a team win 5 games in a row and setting undefeated at home records and not being able to fully savor it because the team may leave next season..

This isn't normal circumstances.. it's probably the most any sports fan could ever go through with a team.

To judge a fanbase or a market over the past two years is really unfair.

[Resolute 14]

You're actually playing into his point evman.

The Coyotes failures are many, and the market is only one of them. Ownership problems, poor management, poor location of the arena (not that Bouw will admit to that one), consistent loser on the ice are all important reasons for the problems. Yes, attendance hasn't risen despite being a better team the past two years, but I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to pledge loyalty to a team that may not be there next year.

Theoretically, a stable owner would mitigate or eliminate most of those problems, leaving it back to the original, and largest, issue of getting people out to the damned arena. I'm not sure that will happen, but one can't fault Bouw for being hopeful.

Then again, I remember how Edmonton fans were so convinced that Katz would instantly turn the Oilers into a winner too. A new owner is not necessarily a better one. But for Phoenix, time would tell on that point.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/04/2...ng-to-peg-katz

Coyotes not coming to 'Peg: Katz

Who cares. He is as far away from the negotiations as anybody.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Muta.. I don't care if the team went 164-0 the past two years.. to expect casual fans to jump on this team emotionally with all the abuse and uncertainty is not realistic. Why is this so hard to understand? You know what sucks? watching a team win 5 games in a row and setting undefeated at home records and not being able to fully savor it because the team may leave next season..

This isn't normal circumstances.. it's probably the most any sports fan could ever go through with a team.

To judge a fanbase or a market over the past two years is really unfair.

So the fan base is crap because the team is struggeling and the team is struggling because the fan base is crap. bit of a circular arguement!