The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

When was the last time the Panthers had a BIG free agent signing?

I will go back to Loungo, who has his family in Florida and resides in Vancouver alone during the season, like alot of players.

The 'city' is a long way down the players list of choices when it comes to signing, money, ice time and playoff success/organizational strength come first and even if a player has a wife who doesn't want to live in Winnipeg or Detroit or any where else for that matter the players make enough money to keep several homes and travel between them.

If Winnipeg ices a crap team, has a crap management and picks a lousy coach they will have trouble signing free agents, if they have a good organization and develop a half decent team, make decent draft picks and spend to the cap they won't.

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Reports are surfacing that CoG and CWI meeting thursday, open forum

This will likely be the CoG's public blame meeting to try and throw as much blame as GWI as possible to try and avoid the eventual political backlash

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

No its not. I don't know why Vancouverites always walk out this talking point. Yes, Vancouver scores high on livability surveys. These surveys don't cater to the interests of multimillionaires however.

Multimillionaires are much better off living in warmer American cities with cheaper taxes, private healthcare, and a better travel schedule.

Vancouver wouldn't even be top ten in the NHL based on solely the city.

Well that applies to every Canadian club, obviously the Canucks and Flames are fooling themselves thinking they will be able to sign any free agents or even ice a team what with the obvious attractions of the the Panthers and Yotes.

Incidently all hockey players have private healthcare no matter where they play, Malhotra isn't schlepping his ass down to VGH to get his eye treated.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Old Winnipeg Jets, Edmonton Oilers, Calgary Flames and to a lesser extent, the Minnesota Northstars/Wild.

BTW, you still haven't anwsered me, and I asked first. I wont respond to you again if your going to cherry pick my posts like that.

You want me to provide examples where warm location and trophy wife pressure did not impact where a player signs...I think I already mentioned Glencross and Tanguay as two examples where those players have stated pretty clearly that they're not focused on warm locations.

I ask you to provide the opposite; ie. provide examples where warm location and trophy wife pressure did impact where a player signs...and you list Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary and Minnesota?

Edit...I see not that you're trying to say that Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary and Minnesota are impacted by wives who didn't want to live there.

The only example I can think of is Nylander in Edmonton. Contrary to perception, Winnipeg didn't have much if any issue. People think Selanne was trying to get out of Winnipeg when Calgary signed him to an offer sheet, but that had nothing to do with him wanting to leave Winnipeg. It had to do with him trying to get a better contract.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Underdog

A few much smarter, much richer men than you or I do, and that's all that matters.

I'm not denying that there is a financial backbone to buy and support the team. I know there is.

What I'm questioning is where there will be corporate support in place to make sure the team stays here. I live near Winnipeg, and I deal with some of the biggest businesses in the city. And in our conversations I have never heard that they'll be picking up a suite, or even buying season tickets. Some have, but there are a lot who don't think its important.

I think that is a concern. Filling the stadium with 15,000 fans per night won't be a problem. Having the corporate support, I think will be.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

No its not. I don't know why Vancouverites always walk out this talking point. Yes, Vancouver scores high on livability surveys. These surveys don't cater to the interests of multimillionaires however.

Multimillionaires are much better off living in warmer American cities with cheaper taxes, private healthcare, and a better travel schedule.

Vancouver wouldn't even be top ten in the NHL based on solely the city.

You're making quite a few assumptions about very different people.

Some hockey players probably prioritize warmth and travel. But some are just as likely to prioritize playing in front of hockey fans and a chance at the cup. Some are going to prioritize playing where their kids and wives would rather live.

Different atheletes sign in different cities for different reasons. Many of them have different priorities and priorities can be quite different for single vs married players.

You seem to outright dismiss or not factor in many of the reasons why Vancouver was ranked so highly, reasons like education (for their kids) lack of crime compared to large urban American centers. If a player's wife values feeling safe do you think she'd rather live in LA or Vancouver/Calgary? Vancouver is a beautiful city in its own right and very close to the ocean and mountains and skiing/yachting/boating/etc.

Bottom line is you can't really generalize like you've done. Different players will have different priorities. And growing in up Europe, Canada or the US will affect their prejudices and ideas about what are the most ideal cities and climates to play in. The Sedins could've bolted from Vancouver to a hotter American city but they didn't. Many players sign in Canada to play in front of hockey fans where hockey matters including a guy like Bouwmeester who could've signed in a variety of places and left a warmer large American city to come to Calgary.

Your conclusions are very suspect. Vancouver could rank top 10 for many players and so could other Canadian cities. Not everyone has the same priorities and generalizing like you have is silly.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

You want me to provide examples where warm location and trophy wife pressure did not impact where a player signs...I think I already mentioned Glencross and Tanguay as two examples where those players have stated pretty clearly that they're not focused on warm locations.

I ask you to provide the opposite; ie. provide examples where warm location and trophy wife pressure did impact where a player signs...and you list Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary and Minnesota?

Very compelling?

Are you really that thick?

I want you to provide me with examples of teams, despite their terrible location, things to do and climates, that have had no issue signing big name UFA's.

And BTW, as much as I like Glencross, when we signed him he was hardly a big name UFA, he was coming off a 15 goal 25 point season, he was hardly a name at all. Tanguay only re-signed here because no one else wanted him not to mention the fact that he has a great connection with Iggy. He was hardly a highly sought after FA.

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HFboards now circulating rumours that the rumoured meeting between COG and GWI in public on thursday is not true

this rollercoster is distressing to say the least

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It isn't it just isn't a good choice, it is, in the current US economy, the only choice if you have to move the team in a month.

Given 2 or 3 years they could come up with a few better options (Quebec mostly)

The move to Winnipeg is a startling indictment of Bettemans poor management of the situation, he should have seen this coming 4 years ago and cultivated a back up market, and then pulled the plug on Phoenix last year, instead he has been so single minded in his attempt to keep the Yotes where they are he has left himself with no options but the Peg or Ballsilie.

Yep, probably should have sold all that Bear Stearns stock too while he was looking into his crystal ball. Your posts never cease to entertain with their stunning lack of attachment to reality.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Its not just the size of the mall, its upper class exclusivity none of us really know about. There are stores, bars and restaurants that are by invitation only or its impossible to get a table reservation, and private or exclusive events that money might not even buy you in. Granted, I don't think everyone is Lauren Pronger, but living in Winnipeg and driving 6 hrs to a mall isn't really going to be the selling point for Winnipeg. I think Winnipeg is going to struggle unless they are a winning franchise. Winning will solve a lot of problems. Losing will be, well... Edmonton/Prongergate/Nylandergate/et al.

Wait? What? You're telling me that these things exist at a mall in Minnesota? I call shenanigans on that one. Shenanigans.

Just realized you were likely referring to the Bay area, in which case I will retract my calling of shenanigans.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Yep, probably should have sold all that Bear Stearns stock too while he was looking into his crystal ball. Your posts never cease to entertain with their stunning lack of attachment to reality.

I don't know, how long had Bear Stearns been losing money and when did it become public knowledge?
I don't think the Coyotes have ever been profitable and Bettman should have been on top of it before they declared bankruptcy. How many times does Bettman get a pass?

It makes for great entertainment but how many times do we go from one franchise to the next with this traveling soap opera.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't know, how long had Bear Stearns been losing money and when did it become public knowledge?
I don't think the Coyotes have ever been profitable and Bettman should have been on top of it before they declared bankruptcy. How many times does Bettman get a pass?

It makes for great entertainment but how many times do we go from one franchise to the next with this traveling soap opera.

There were certainly issues with Phoenix, but the manner in which things fell apart was completely out of left field. There was really no way to establish a different backup plan for a scenario that saw the entire manner in which North American professional sports operate being threatened.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

There were certainly issues with Phoenix, but the manner in which things fell apart was completely out of left field. There was really no way to establish a different backup plan for a scenario that saw the entire manner in which North American professional sports operate being threatened.

From here it looks like Bettman didn't know what was going on with the original owner and Balsillie and didn't have any backup plan. That it got to the point that all of professional sport in NA was under threat, I'd call that incompetence.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

From here it looks like Bettman didn't know what was going on with the original owner and Balsillie and didn't have any backup plan. That it got to the point that all of professional sport in NA was under threat, I'd call that incompetence.

Bettman was supposed to foresee that the previous owner would try to pull backdoor shenanigans that lead to a legal battle? Be honest, there isn't a thing the guy could do that you would find acceptable.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

Bettman was supposed to foresee that the previous owner would try to pull backdoor shenanigans that lead to a legal battle? Be honest, there isn't a thing the guy could do that you would find acceptable.

He's paid to know what is going on with his owners and with his teams. Be honest, there isn't a thing that guy could do that you wouldn't find acceptable.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

He's paid to know what is going on with his owners and with his teams. Be honest, there isn't a thing that guy could do that you wouldn't find acceptable.

There are certainly things I've criticized, his handling of the discipline arm of the NHL has been abysmal, Campbell should have been axed the minute the emails complaining about calls on his son were leaked. As far as business operations, no, I don't have much in the way of criticism. Maybe it's because I actually understand what his job is.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by valo403

Bettman was supposed to foresee that the previous owner would try to pull backdoor shenanigans that lead to a legal battle?

No, but in all fairness he shouldn't have let it get to the point where said previous owner would feel the need to engage in said shenanigans.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

You're making quite a few assumptions about very different people.

Some hockey players probably prioritize warmth and travel. But some are just as likely to prioritize playing in front of hockey fans and a chance at the cup. Some are going to prioritize playing where their kids and wives would rather live.

Different atheletes sign in different cities for different reasons. Many of them have different priorities and priorities can be quite different for single vs married players.

You seem to outright dismiss or not factor in many of the reasons why Vancouver was ranked so highly, reasons like education (for their kids) lack of crime compared to large urban American centers. If a player's wife values feeling safe do you think she'd rather live in LA or Vancouver/Calgary? Vancouver is a beautiful city in its own right and very close to the ocean and mountains and skiing/yachting/boating/etc.

Bottom line is you can't really generalize like you've done. Different players will have different priorities. And growing in up Europe, Canada or the US will affect their prejudices and ideas about what are the most ideal cities and climates to play in. The Sedins could've bolted from Vancouver to a hotter American city but they didn't. Many players sign in Canada to play in front of hockey fans where hockey matters including a guy like Bouwmeester who could've signed in a variety of places and left a warmer large American city to come to Calgary.

Your conclusions are very suspect. Vancouver could rank top 10 for many players and so could other Canadian cities. Not everyone has the same priorities and generalizing like you have is silly.

I agree Vancouver was on the list of places Gretzky would consider playing

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, but in all fairness he shouldn't have let it get to the point where said previous owner would feel the need to engage in said shenanigans.

I'm not sure what the alternative was, said owner was put in the situation by the collapse of the US economy and it's impact on his other businesses. Unless the argument is that Bettman should have foreseen that the US economy was leveraged on the backs of RMBS and that the dominos would eventually fall on the owner in Phoenix I don't see what backup plan could have been made. Should there be an ownership group held in reserve for every market in the league just in case something happens? That's not a realistic expectation.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

From here it looks like Bettman didn't know what was going on with the original owner and Balsillie and didn't have any backup plan. That it got to the point that all of professional sport in NA was under threat, I'd call that incompetence.

Yes, but your fanatical hatred of the man blinds you. You will no doubt counter that it isn't hate, but we all know from your posts where the truth lies.

The opposite side of your argument is that Bettman negotiated through that threat, saving the sports landscape for not only his bosses, but also his former bosses in the NBA, as well as the NFL and MLB. That would be a mark of competence.