Laser therapy for Golfers/Tennis Elbow

[Buzzard]

Have you done it? Did it help? Have you tried anything else for it? Did anything else help?

I've got chronic golfers elbow...both arms. I've put up with it for twenty years, and to be honest, can't deal with it anymore. It prevents me from doing so much. Any activity involving use of arms just kills me afterwards if it doesn't get me during. I did try some ultrasound therapy of some kind years ago but all that did was cost me money. It kind of turned me off from trying anything else, so I've just dealt with it. From what I've read though, laser sounds like the cats ass. Does it work, or is it yet another scam? I'm interested in how much it costs also, but if it works, that's not really an issue.

[troutman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_level_laser_therapy

Low-level laser therapy (LLLT) is a medical and veterinary treatment that uses low-level lasers or light-emitting diodes to alter cellular function. LLLT is controversial in mainstream medicine with ongoing research to determine the ideal location of treatment (specifically whether LLLT is more appropriately used over nerves versus joints[1]), dose, wavelength, timing, pulsing and duration.[2] The effects of LLLT appear to be limited to a specified set of wavelengths of laser,[3] and administering LLLT below the dose range does not appear to be effective.[4]

Despite a lack of consensus over its ideal use, specific test and protocols for LLLT suggest it is effective in relieving short-term pain for rheumatoid arthritis,[1] osteoarthritis,[5] acute and chronic neck pain,[6] tendinopathy,[7][3] and possibly chronic joint disorders.[4] The evidence for LLLT being useful in the treatment of low back pain,[8][9] dentistry[10][11] and wound healing is equivocal.[12]

http://www.laser.nu/lllt/science.htm

This page presents new research
within the field of lllt -
Low Level Laser Therapy.

[troutman]

A Skeptical Look at Low Level Laser Therapy
http://www.devicewatch.org/reports/lllt.shtml

The scientific consensus is that no LLLT has been proven more effective for pain than any other form of heat delivery. Some benefits have been reported, but the studies have been too small and/or too short to draw firm conclusions.

Aetna, CIGNA, and the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), have published detailed critiques of Anodyne's data and other published studies and explain why they do not cover LLLT.

• Aetna considers treatment with low-level infrared light (infrared therapy, Anodyne Therapy System) experimental and investigational for the treatment of chronic non-healing wounds, diabetic peripheral neuropathy, lymphedema, neck pain, acne, osteoarthritis, ischemic stroke and all other indications (except for grade I and II internal hemorrhoids) because of a lack of adequate evidence in the peer-reviewed published medical literature regarding the effectiveness of infrared therapy for these indications [4].
  
  
• CIGNA concludes: Low-level laser therapy (LLLT) has been proposed for a wide variety of uses, including wound healing, tuberculosis, and musculoskeletal conditions such as osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia and carpal tunnel syndrome. There is insufficient evidence in the published, peer-reviewed scientific literature to demonstrate that LLLT is effective for these conditions or other medical conditions. Large, well-designed clinical trials are needed to demonstrate the effectiveness of LLLT for the proposed conditions [5].
  
  
• CMS has determined that there is sufficient evidence to conclude that the use of infrared devices is not reasonable and necessary for treatment of Medicare beneficiaries for diabetic and non-diabetic peripheral sensory neuropathy, wounds and ulcers, and similar related conditions, including symptoms such as pain arising from these conditions. Therefore, we are issuing the following National Coverage Determination. The use of infrared and/or near-infrared light and/or heat, including monochromatic infrared energy (MIRE), is not covered for the treatment, including symptoms such as pain arising from these conditions, of diabetic and/or non-diabetic peripheral sensory neuropathy, wounds and/or ulcers of skin and/or subcutaneous tissues in Medicare beneficiaries [6].

[VladtheImpaler]

I had a very, very bad tennis elbow last summer, exacerbated by hyperextending it playing hockey, to the point it was often hard/painful to pick up a cup. The guy that fixed me was Dr. Jay Sheppard in Kensington - he is the guy all the pro/Olympic athletes go to. He used a combination of active release therapy and laser. Now, I personally believe it was the ART that did the trick, but who knows? He is more expensive than most ($59/visit; the laser is $45/treatment), but he fixed me in basically 8 visits.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I had a very, very bad tennis elbow last summer, exacerbated by hyperextending it playing hockey, to the point it was often hard/painful to pick up a cup. The guy that fixed me was Dr. Jay Sheppard in Kensington - he is the guy all the pro/Olympic athletes go to. He used a combination of active release therapy and laser. Now, I personally believe it was the ART that did the trick, but who knows? He is more expensive than most ($59/visit; the laser is $45/treatment), but he fixed me in basically 8 visits.

That's the problem - "who knows?". Your elbow may have got better just by the passage of time.

LLLT seems to be a relatively new treatment, with insufficient data to make any conclusions about effectiveness. More research is needed.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by troutman

That's the problem - "who knows?". Your elbow may have got better just by the passage of time.

LLLT seems to be a relatively new treatment, with insufficient data to make any conclusions about effectiveness. More research is needed.

No it didn't - I did nothing about it for 4 months and just suffered. Like I said, I am pretty sure it was the ART, and not the laser that fixed it. If you want to be frugal, just do the ART.

P.S. Just to be clear - I am sure the ART fixed it; not sure if laser helped.

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by troutman

That's the problem - "who knows?". Your elbow may have got better just by the passage of time.

LLLT seems to be a relatively new treatment, with insufficient data to make any conclusions about effectiveness. More research is needed.

Obviously everyone is different, but I've given my elbows all the time in the world and the pain is just as bad as when it first started. For me at least, resting them has no affect. As soon as they are put to use, the pain is back. Some kind of therapy is required.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Obviously everyone is different, but I've given my elbows all the time in the world and the pain is just as bad as when it first started. For me at least, resting them has no affect. As soon as they are put to use, the pain is back. Some kind of therapy is required.

You should also ice regularly. No heat, just ice.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Obviously everyone is different, but I've given my elbows all the time in the world and the pain is just as bad as when it first started. For me at least, resting them has no affect. As soon as they are put to use, the pain is back. Some kind of therapy is required.

Don't listen to Troutman he just quotes articles that say things don't work. He doesn't believe that people can decide for themselves that something worked for them.

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

You should also ice regularly. No heat, just ice.

Yeah I use ice, probably should use it more though. I find it helps a bit for immediate, short term relief.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Don't listen to Troutman he just quotes articles that say things don't work. He doesn't believe that people can decide for themselves that something worked for them.

Sure, attack the messenger, rather than the information.

I've attached a link listing research on LLLT.

The only thing I've claimed on this topic is the evidence is thin. Buyer beware. If further research proves it to be clearly effective, I would be happy with that. I'm a skeptic, not a cynic.

[DrJ]

Put me in the skeptic camp for the laser treatment. Nice research troutman. Not bad for a Western grad :P.

Glad the ART worked for you Vlad.

[Crazy Bacon Legs]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Don't listen to Troutman he just quotes articles that say things don't work. He doesn't believe that people can decide for themselves that something worked for them.

Yeah, how dare he provide factual information linking to actual scientific studies and peer-reviewed journal articles, rather than just forming and sharing an opinion without basis.

His sort of behavior is inexcusable has no place on the internet.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Buzzard

Have you done it? Did it help? Have you tried anything else for it? Did anything else help?

I've got chronic golfers elbow...both arms. I've put up with it for twenty years, and to be honest, can't deal with it anymore. It prevents me from doing so much. Any activity involving use of arms just kills me afterwards if it doesn't get me during. I did try some ultrasound therapy of some kind years ago but all that did was cost me money. It kind of turned me off from trying anything else, so I've just dealt with it. From what I've read though, laser sounds like the cats ass. Does it work, or is it yet another scam? I'm interested in how much it costs also, but if it works, that's not really an issue.

I assume you've tried physiotherapy? Did you adhere to the exercises/stretches given?

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Don't listen to Troutman he just quotes articles that say things don't work. He doesn't believe that people can decide for themselves that something worked for them.

Anecdotal evidence barely counts as evidence.

[Bill Bumface]

Have you tried wearing a strap on your forearm? I used to get this really bad from a combination of tennis, volleyball and hockey. It hurt by far the most during volleyball so I started wearing a strap on my forearm and it helped a ton.

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

I assume you've tried physiotherapy? Did you adhere to the exercises/stretches given?

I havnt done physio. I went to the doctor many years ago and he did the ultrasound thing I mentioned. I mentioned it to my chiropractor and he wanted only to do the ultrasound treatment route as well. So no, I havnt done physio.

Yeah hulk, I've tried the strap quite a bit and seems to make little difference if any.

[VladtheImpaler]

The strap didn't make any difference to me. I should say it helped to be able to play hockey, but they pain afterward was much worse if I used the strap.

[T@T]

Cheap alternative, stretch your arms/back..etc and pop 4 of these an hour before golf and an instant 4-5 shots off your game with no pain. And I'm not kidding!!

[Garbs]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

No it didn't - I did nothing about it for 4 months and just suffered. Like I said, I am pretty sure it was the ART, and not the laser that fixed it. If you want to be frugal, just do the ART.

P.S. Just to be clear - I am sure the ART fixed it; not sure if laser helped.

Having done ART for other sports injuries that stuff really works. Its just unpleasent to go through when its happening...