Vote Compass

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by SebC

What's going on here... the parties move around?

When you are on the results pane, if you use the drop downs to focus on one aspect - i.e.: defence, it will realign the parties based on where the University of Toronto thinks they sit for that one policy plank.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/decis.../17799041.html

Apparently flawed to default to the Liberal party!

Originally Posted by transplant99

This "mechanism" is coming under further scrutiny.
http://www.calgarysun.com/news/decis.../17815011.html

Ya so this is the "test" that got everyone up in arms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNU3sL8T8RI

and the criticism of the test is accurate - it's not a good test, they ask questions where a 1/4 of them would put you in top left corner of the grid a different 1/4 of questions bottom right another 1/4 = top right and 1/4 = bottom left. So if you answer them all the same then you will end up smack in the middle. Closest to the liberal party...

This is where the actual problem is and a legitimate complaint of bias exists.

From the Calgary Sun article:
"While Vote Compass puts the Liberals in the centre, it puts the Conservatives in the bottom right quadrant of their political graph, painting the party as both social and fiscal conservatives. University of Calgary political science professor Barry Cooper said that's not where the Conservatives belong.

"They are extremely centrist," said Cooper. "They are about as centrist as you can get."
.......
"That being said, there does seem to be some problems. I mean, when Guy Giorno comes out as a Liberal, you have to think something has gone seriously wrong with your computer."

[CaptainCrunch]

If someone is stupid enough to decide on how they're voting based on the equivalency of a Flash video game then we need to start recinding voter rights.

[YYC in LAX]

Conservative was a runaway winner for me. :-)
NDP was sooooooooooooooo far away. Earn your own money, you plugs.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

This is where the actual problem is and a legitimate complaint of bias exists.

From the Calgary Sun article:
"While Vote Compass puts the Liberals in the centre, it puts the Conservatives in the bottom right quadrant of their political graph, painting the party as both social and fiscal conservatives. University of Calgary political science professor Barry Cooper said that's not where the Conservatives belong.

"They are extremely centrist," said Cooper. "They are about as centrist as you can get."

What do you think of my argument for why they are not?

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...54#post3045754

[zuluking]

Putting the a$$ back in Vote Compass...

http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/col.../17832836.html

[Julio]

I shake my head @ the Sun, and laugh outright @ Levant.
Based on his reasoning the Sun and Sun TV (featuring the main squeeze of a Calgary MP as a host/journalist) should be registered as a third party advocacy group as much as he feels the CBC should be for the Liberals.

[SebC]

Not to mention he's using the same dumb rationale that neutral answers giving you the centrist party is somehow evidence that the survey is flawed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its a stupid survey and as much as people are telling us that they should use this as a voter decision tool, anyone who strictly uses this to decide how to vote is a complete moron, or lazy minded.

However my concern is with the demographic data that's being collected and where its going. I think that does need to be disclosed now that there's a lose connection between one of the involved people and Michael Ignatieff.

[Slava]

From what I've read there isn't a "connection" between these two though....its just what the CPC and their supporters are alleging. Frankly if these guys would just stop fear-mongering over one thing or another and run an election campaign then I'd have a lot more respect for them.

[burn_this_city]

The controversy about this is pretty dumb, especially when you look at how much work the guy has done for the PCs on the Federal and Provincial levels.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

From what I've read there isn't a "connection" between these two though....its just what the CPC and their supporters are alleging. Frankly if these guys would just stop fear-mongering over one thing or another and run an election campaign then I'd have a lot more respect for them.

What do you mean there's no connection, beyond one of the people that worked on developing this survey and is in charge of collecting the stats used to work for Ignatieff on his leadership campaign and advised him on equalization policy?

[Slava]

^well from what I read (and admittedly can't source as I'm on my phone and can't recall where it was at this point) there was no connection. I also watched the piece that explained how this was put together though and from that it looked like it was a collaboration amongst a group of students at UofT.

I also wonder about the CPC fear-mongering here. Is their position that the CBC, which is totally open and transparent and susceptible to government funding, campaigning to oust the Tories? Do they actually think that this is a massive conspiracy to move them to the opposition? If they. Do then they ought to just come right out and make those allegations.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Slava

^well from what I read (and admittedly can't source as I'm on my phone and can't recall where it was at this point) there was no connection. I also watched the piece that explained how this was put together though and from that it looked like it was a collaboration amongst a group of students at UofT.

I also wonder about the CPC fear-mongering here. Is their position that the CBC, which is totally open and transparent and susceptible to government funding, campaigning to oust the Tories? Do they actually think that this is a massive conspiracy to move them to the opposition? If they. Do then they ought to just come right out and make those allegations.

Wow.

Information commissioner Suzanne Legault's latest annual report shows the CBC received almost 900 complaints from 2007 to 2010, by far the most levied against any federal institution subject to the Access to Information Act

Legault said complaints skyrocketed by 80% after some 70 agencies were added to federal disclosure rules in 2007, but most were directed at Canada's public broadcaster for failing to make information available

More than 85% of the grievances investigated against the CBC were found to have merit, according to figures in Legault's report.

Far from "totally open and transparent"...no?

Also...here is the connection according to Ezra Levant.

Try it out yourself. If you answer neutrally or "no opinion" to every question, it tells you you're for Michael Ignatieff.

Not surprisingly, the CBC has stonewalled requests to release their formula.

Why the secrecy? CBC spokesman Jeff Keay said there is no bias, "as far as we know." What does that mean? Has Keay even seen the formula? Whose word is he taking that it's fair?

Perhaps he's taking the word of Peter Loewen, the "director of analytics" for the Vote Compass. Loewen just happens to have been a policy adviser for Michael Ignatieff's 2006 Liberal leadership campaign

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/co.../17832526.html

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

^well from what I read (and admittedly can't source as I'm on my phone and can't recall where it was at this point) there was no connection. I also watched the piece that explained how this was put together though and from that it looked like it was a collaboration amongst a group of students at UofT.

I also wonder about the CPC fear-mongering here. Is their position that the CBC, which is totally open and transparent and susceptible to government funding, campaigning to oust the Tories? Do they actually think that this is a massive conspiracy to move them to the opposition? If they. Do then they ought to just come right out and make those allegations.

Again its great that there was a collaboration of students, but even you have to admit that there's something that's fairly smelly about this especially considering that the director of analytics, the guy thats probably receiving the information from the compass including ridings and vote preferences used to be directly attached to Ignatieff.

If we're going to flail Harper about his integrity, then don't you think we should judge this on a level ground, or at least wonder where the information gained from the Compass is going.

And thank you, I've had a miserable week and you actually made me smile with the open and transparent activities of the CBC, who are in fact more closed and guarded and secretive then a meeting by the Bilderberg group or whatever you call it when they have their annual meeting with the leadership of the Free Masons.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Putting the a$$ back in Vote Compass...

http://www.ottawasun.com/comment/col.../17832836.html

Interesting

[Weiser Wonder]

It's a faulty survey, I agree but most people who vote are grossly uninformed, so I'd rather have someone take this survey before voting than not.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Wow.



Far from "totally open and transparent"...no?

Also...here is the connection according to Ezra Levant.



http://www.torontosun.com/comment/co.../17832526.html

Don't you think that the fact you know how many complaints were levied and such is a sign of openess and transparency? How many were levied against the other outlets? I frankly have no idea (and don't really care), but just because someone complains doesn't mean they aren't open and transparent.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Again its great that there was a collaboration of students, but even you have to admit that there's something that's fairly smelly about this especially considering that the director of analytics, the guy thats probably receiving the information from the compass including ridings and vote preferences used to be directly attached to Ignatieff.

If we're going to flail Harper about his integrity, then don't you think we should judge this on a level ground, or at least wonder where the information gained from the Compass is going.

And thank you, I've had a miserable week and you actually made me smile with the open and transparent activities of the CBC, who are in fact more closed and guarded and secretive then a meeting by the Bilderberg group or whatever you call it when they have their annual meeting with the leadership of the Free Masons.

I think that you guys are mistaking "agreeing with you" with "openess and transparency.

The funny thing to me is this: lets go along with the theory that this produces more Liberal results than the others. The reason isn't because its skewed. its because on most of the issues (which seem to be the main issues that the parties are ALL campaigning on) people simply don't care that much!

The other thing you have to accept is that when almost everyone in this thread does the survey and factors in the areas that they care/don't care about it seems pretty accurate. if the methodology is that horrible then you have throw those results out as well, right? You can't have it both ways IMO.

[Slava]

Here is an article with comments from Loewen himself explaining some of his past political involvement: http://www.vancouversun.com/technolo...808/story.html

I kind of feel bad for the guy to be honest. Like most people he probably doesn't identify totally with any party and he gets dragged into this mess.

[llama64]

I did as Ezra Levant suggested and ran through the survey giving it no data. Non-surprisingly it set me at the middle of the plot:


How is this surprising to anyone? The Liberals are Canada's centrist party. In some irony, the NDP are the outliers. And the CBC is a socialist plot to control the nation's minds right?

edit: actually, doing this is kinda fun. Set all responses to zero and then toggle everything off on the right ("which issues are important"). The liberal icon sure bounces around A LOT. Kinda what you expect from them... Their platform is "please, just vote for me, I'll do anything you want"

Attempting to suggest collusion between the CBC and the Liberals based on this only results in Levant looking even more of a moron then he already is. And really, anyone trying to pass a Levant opinion piece off as actual journalism needs to go back to school and re-take critical thinking. Using his logic, I could turn around and suggest that the Toronto Sun is OBVIOUSLY biased to the CPC because Levant has been working for the Reform Party for decades.

According to the Privacy Statement http://federal.votecompass.ca/privacy/ : "While Vote Compass provides analysis of aggregate responses to the questionnaire for its media sponsors, i.e. CBC News and Radio-Canada, it will under no circumstances disclose to either party individual-level respondent data."

Suggests to me that CBC wants to have a gimmik on Election Night in Canada where they can compare the real time results to projections made using the info gathered in this survey. Likely used in conjunction with other poll data. It's a poll. Don't like it, don't use it.

And yes, the language allows the data owners to share mass results with anyone, including the political parties. For all anyone knows, the data is being given out to any party that asks. The suggestion of collusion is pure conjecture - Levant is claiming prophetic knowledge based entirely on correlation. If an actual journalist (preferably more then one) produces a piece with actual evidence of collusion, then there is cause for alarm, but for now, it's just one crazy right-wing columnist attacking the CBC again.