2011 Canadian Election Thread

[Frequitude]

Can the smarty pants crud, ev. You sound ridiculous.

Originally Posted by SebC

Not really... you're arguing that because what the Conservatives did isn't the worst thing a government's ever done, it's not contempt.

Swearing at a judge might not be the most contemptible thing a lawyer's ever done, but it's still contempt of court (I think).

That's not what I'm saying. Hell, I don't even know if its contempt or not.

What i am saying though is that its trivial **** to be bringing a government down over. If this is the precedent going forwards, god help us all.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

What i am saying though is that its trivial **** to be bringing a government down over.

I don't think having a government that seems to frequently believe itself to be above the will of Parliament is trivial at all. Not in the slightest.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I will give you the Bev Oda ordeal, she should have just admitted how that decision was made and that she approved the "Not" on the document, I don't like how she handled it.

As for the documents, for the 50th time, they provided everything they could to the opposition. I am talking boxes and boxes of documents. That wasn't good enough for them, they wanted all kinds of estimates about 10, 15, 20 costs which cannot be provided. No matter what the government gave to them they would not have been happy.

As for the committee's, if you only know how much of a joke all those committee's ended up being for the last 2 years you would understand why they didn't send people to them. I am talking about every committee having a majority of opposition over the ruling government. Almost every committee was nothing more than a witch hunt. The opposition would do everything in their power to gum up the works of government.

I use to think that minorities were not bad for running the government. The problem is you don't get responsible adults into these committee positions and MP positions. You get a bunch of people (from all parties) who do nothing but grand stand and try to one up each other to make themselves look good instead of conducting business in the best interests of the country.

I would rather have majority governments with a set term of 3 years instead of this crap that we are dealing with now. Much more would get done and if the public didn't like how the government was going, throw them out after three years and try someone new.

That bolded part stands to reason though; there was a majority of non-government MPs in the house.....so naturally there are a majority of non-government MPs on most of the committees.

[Parallex]

In a completely unsurprising turn of events...

A senior Conservative official said on Wednesday night that despite the public challenges issued by the two parties leaders, the one-on-one idea was unworkable.

That took even less time then I thought it would.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Slava

That bolded part stands to reason though; there was a majority of non-government MPs in the house.....so naturally there are a majority of non-government MPs on most of the committees.

I know, but I am just trying to illustrate how the government is not actually working. Nothing can really get done. The opposition members on these committees do nothing but stonewall the progress of the government.

I am not saying anything would be different if it was a Liberal minority. I am sure the same BS would be taking place. All I am saying is the what the opposition does is not for the good of the country but for their own good.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Obstruction of government committees, you say? That sounds like a page right out of Harper's playbook. Oh wait, it is! In 2007 the CPC literally wrote a handbook to explain to their MPs how to obstruct committees and prevent the government from functioning.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...icle704164.ece

They created this because it all stems from the opposition members of the committees trying to dictate how the government would run. This is why I said I don't like minority governments.

You have a party that has almost enough seats to form a majority government yet has almost an impossible time getting anything done that it was elected to do. The book was simply a counter measure for the exact same thing the opposition is doing, they just never let the book get leaked.

All parties involved are to blame.

[Frequitude]

Spot on Jolinar. All parties do it and its a shame. Ideailstic, yes, but if only the opposition would swallow their pride and help govern. Instead, its just a bunch of political games and bashing the sitting government in the media.

We see it at the Provincial level too. When was the last time you saw the Alberta Liberals in the media for something other than bashing something the Conservatives have done?

This whole election seems a product of political gamesmanship and nothing to do with what we've elected them to do...govern.

Put me on board with a Harper led Conservative-Liberal coalition. It'd be nice to see everyone get along.

[Tinordi]

Liberals narrow gap to 6 pp.

Outlier? Blip? Trend? Or is the election starting to break early?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1964548/

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Liberals narrow gap to 6 pp.

Outlier? Blip? Trend? Or is the election starting to break early?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1964548/

What's happening is Jack Layton's mailing it in. His hip is clearly slowing him down and he's not fighting hard. All he's done is make the same failed policy promises he's made in campaigns past with nothing new or inspiring behind them. So soft NDP support that formally bled to the Liberals is going back the other way.

When even the CBC is knocking the credit card rate cap plan and that's the most remarkable thing you've done thus far, you're hooped.

[burn_this_city]

I'll be curious what things poll at after Ignatieff's child care promise. Judging by the usually red friendly cbc comments, its not being well received.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

As for the documents, for the 50th time, they provided everything they could to the opposition. I am talking boxes and boxes of documents. That wasn't good enough for them, they wanted all kinds of estimates about 10, 15, 20 costs which cannot be provided. No matter what the government gave to them they would not have been happy.

Link?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Liberals narrow gap to 6 pp.

Outlier? Blip? Trend? Or is the election starting to break early?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1964548/

It's hard to believe the NDP lost four points to the Liberals in a day, so I'm inclined to believe it is an outlier. But a very interesting poll. Even if he hasn't dug into Tory support, Ignatieff has to beat off the Dippers as well, so he must be feeling good about this poll.

It's also worth noting that that poll has the Conservatives gaining a point as well. How about a Conservative majority with a strong Liberal opposition?

[Tinordi]

I've long stated that the Liberal's worst enemy was the NDP not the Conservatives. In a two party system like down south the Liberals walk away with every election unless the Conservatives move significantly more to the center (which would only be accomplished with a new leader).

In first past the post with three parties one side of the political spectrum will always be cannibalized with the other side running up the middle. This has been what's happened for the past 15 years at least.

If this is a real break away from the NDP then the Conservatives have got to be worried. Still though, too early to tell. But all eyes will be on that NDP support in the next two weeks.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Liberals narrow gap to 6 pp.

Outlier? Blip? Trend? Or is the election starting to break early?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1964548/

Yeah, a four-point swing over one day in these three day rolling polls indicates that the actual numbers from last night are even better for the Liberals; if the numbers stay the same for the next couple days and then drop again, it means that the numbers from last night were a blip. If they rise again tomorrow, then there could be something significant going on.

The bad news for the Liberals is that most of their gains were in the Prairies, which is probably the least useful place for them to gain support. Other than Saint Boniface and Winnipeg South, I don't think there are any other ridings on the prairies that are a realistic pickup for them.

edit: oh, looks like big gains in Atlantic Canada, which actually is meaningful with the large number of three-candidate ridings.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its really interesting to me that the NDP has dropped that quickly in terms of support, the other thing that I found interesting is that the change in the polls isn't due to the eroding of Conservative support.

I said at the start that this was probably Layton's last kick at the cat, and that a long campaign would wear him down, but I think that started earlier then expected.

The NDP's credit card policy fell flatter then a fat guy jumping off of the Petro Canada building.

The situation hasn't really changed much for the Cons from yesterday, I would expect that Quebec polling is about the same and a area of concern for the Liberals who were faltering there.

I missed the news yesterday, which candidate crossed to the Libs?

[Tinordi]

Liberals also effectively crowding out NDP policies and are neck and neck with Conservative policy announcements. I would go so far to say that the Liberal and Ignatieff personal numbers uptick is also related to a freshness factor. Tory budget was basically more of the same, not entirely uninspiring but something the public has become largely complacent with after months of messaging around the corporate tax cuts and income splitting.

On the other hand, the Liberal student tax incentive has garnered alot of buzz for example.

There are rumblings that the Conservative campaign is really stumbling right now. After five years of tight information management the 4th estate has started asking Harper some hard questions. We're seeing some long pent-up frustration among the reporter-class on how they've been treated by the Government and it looks like their gloves are off.

Going to be a very interesting slog. The narrative at this point is decidedly uncertain but Harper is definitely on the defensive.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I missed the news yesterday, which candidate crossed to the Libs?

To the Libs, or from the Libs?

I did come across this:

http://www.yorkregion.com/news/artic...ral-rocks-boat

Just days into the Vaughan federal election campaign, a longtime Liberal Party stalwart and former foe of Conservative MP Julian Fantino has made a stunning about-face and thrown his support behind the former top cop, The Citizen has learned.

Former federal Liberal candidate and well-known Vaughan volunteer Tony Genco said in an open letter provided to The Citizen that his change of heart was predicated on the fact that “the Liberal Party I joined over 20 years ago in university has disappeared. The ideas that I tried to represent of balance, diversity and nation-building no longer exist in this version of the Liberal Party. It’s clear the Liberal Party policies do not resonate with the majority of Canadians.”

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Liberals also effectively crowding out NDP policies and are neck and neck with Conservative policy announcements. I would go so far to say that the Liberal and Ignatieff personal numbers uptick is also related to a freshness factor. Tory budget was basically more of the same, not entirely uninspiring but something the public has become largely complacent with after months of messaging around the corporate tax cuts and income splitting.

I would agree with that, and its certainly easier to be fighting from an opposition position then from the governmental position. So far the Liberal promises are worth something like 1.6 billion if I calculate things out right. I would expect that the Conservatives are going to work through the budget and maybe add some bombshells towards the end.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

On the other hand, the Liberal student tax incentive has garnered alot of buzz for example.

I will admit its a pretty clever announcement in terms of buying student votes, but I don't know how effective its going to be given student voter apathy numbers.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

There are rumblings that the Conservative campaign is really stumbling right now. After five years of tight information management the 4th estate has started asking Harper some hard questions. We're seeing some long pent-up frustration among the reporter-class on how they've been treated by the Government and it looks like their gloves are off.

and yet the Conservatives did scale up by one vote, so I don't think its much of a stumble in the campaign. Right now this is euivalent to a seat shuffle on the opposition side of the house with the Conservatives retaining or slightly gaining on thier minority.

And as someone pointed out, the percentage increases were mainly seen in the West which is seat wise fairly secure for the Cons.

The big battleground remains Quebec and inner Toronto, and the polls that I saw up to a couple of days ago show the Liberals losing ground to the Bloc and the cons to an extent.

I would expect that we'll see ups and downs as promises resonate or don't resonate until the two days of leaders debates, then the polls will settle into a more realistic area.



Going to be a very interesting slog. The narrative at this point is decidedly uncertain but Harper is definitely on the defensive.[/QUOTE]

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

To the Libs, or from the Libs?

I did come across this:

http://www.yorkregion.com/news/artic...ral-rocks-boat

There was also a NDPer who pulled out to support the Liberal somewhere in Ontario. The NDP says that they are going to replace him....I can't recall the riding, but I think that the current seat is held by a guy named Preston who is a CPCer.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

To the Libs, or from the Libs?

To the Libs. It was some Dipper candidate named Ryan Dolby in Ontario. In Vaughn Genco was the candidate in the past byelection but he didn't get the nomination for the current general election.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/can...ice=mobile&c=y

http://www.torontosun.com/news/decis.../17782166.html