I am the parent of two kids. If my kid was the one who reciprocated on the little kid by dangerously slamming him down, he'd be in huge trouble. I would hope to think that my kid would walk away from the taunting and know that if he wanted to, he could really hurt someone in that situation.
I don't think the big kid in the video had any such knowledge.
I get your point entirely.
I already quoted you, so sorry for the double quote!
I think you are asking too much for a kid to walk away from two punches to the face, especially as this might not have been the first time. What about how your kid might be seriously hurt by being essentially sucker punched and then hit multiple times after? The first option isn't to try to kill the guy, but clearly the bigger kid waited a while and took a bunch of shots before reacting, it isn't like he didn't try other tactics to defuse the situation.
I am the parent of two kids. If my kid was the one who reciprocated on the little kid by dangerously slamming him down, he'd be in huge trouble. I would hope to think that my kid would walk away from the taunting and know that if he wanted to, he could really hurt someone in that situation.
I don't think the big kid in the video had any such knowledge.
I get your point entirely.
How do you know the kid would have stopped? Did you witness any bullying when you were a kid? Walking away usually leads to even more taunting and bullying. He stood up for himself, and that little punk got what he deserved and will likely think twice about bullying in the future.
He could have pushed the kid away, kicked the kid, punched him back, bent his arm, shoved him on his butt. Instead he (150lbs) picked the kid (80lbs) up and dropped him like a wrestler, on concrete.
There is a big difference between defending yourself and taking self defense way too far. This kid is probably much too young and too inexperienced, and has probably been treated too poorly to know the difference.
Kids are cruel, horrible and mean. Thankfully they have adults to supervise them from killing each other.
I agree 100%.
As I mentioned in my previous post, as a parent of the SK, I would be very upset with him when spoke with him. On the other hand, if I was the FK parent, the first thing I would do when he got home is say I am glad he stuck up for himself, BUT he did so in a way that could have been pretty dangerous. I would point out ways he could have better handled the situation, and make him understand that even though he was upset and snapped, he needed to control and funnel that emotion so it didn't get him in trouble in the future.
However, I don't think, given our limited perspective on this incident, that the FK could have done much to have it end up differently. Had he "pushed him on his butt", do you think it would have stopped the SK? I wouldn't bet on it. SK had peer pressure from 2 friends and the fact that the incident was being video taped. If he let a little shove deter him, he would be a laughing stock. The only way this would end well for FK in the long term, is a severe reaction. If he pushes him on his butt and runs away, what happens? He tells a teacher? His parents? Obviously he felt this wouldn't do anything since he had not successfully used either method in the past (or the kid would not have been bullying him).
Since a severe action is the only positive outcome for FK, you have a few options.
1) Use a weapon, either immediately or in the future sometime. Obviously a bad choice.
2) Use the force of his body, in the uncontrolled manner that he did
3) Use some sort of controlled strike or hold to stop the current encounter and prevent further encounters.
4) Contact a person in a position of authority, which the system had lead you to believe will help you in this situation. They can apply the proper sanctions to the individuals deserving.
5) Disregard the possibility of a positive outcome and submit to a beating and humiliation in front of your schoolmates and potentially a large audience on the internet.
Of these options, obviously #4 is the best choice, but that depends on the "system" being one that doesn't implicitly support bullying by neglecting to punish those who perpetrate it. That doesn't exist, and is the root of the problem here.
The next best choice is #3, because the FK only uses the amount of force required to subdue and prevent future encounters. The problem with this choice is it requires training. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize he has none of that training, nor the foreseeable prospects of getting it.
#1 is obviously the last thing we want to see happen.
Unless you are suggesting that he takes #5 as the option, there really is only one choice here, yet you are condemning him for using it because it make you squeamish when he did it? Just because it might have physically hurt the inconsiderate little prick who was tormenting him and causing even more emotional damage than any body slam could possibly muster?
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I am the parent of two kids. If my kid was the one who reciprocated on the little kid by dangerously slamming him down, he'd be in huge trouble. I would hope to think that my kid would walk away from the taunting and know that if he wanted to, he could really hurt someone in that situation.
I don't think the big kid in the video had any such knowledge.
I get your point entirely.
So you would severely discipline your child, who was obviously not provided with the tools to properly combat this torture, be they physical, mental or by providing him with a system where he feels like he can get help with these things?
Seriously?
Lets blame the kid because, as you admitted, he didn't know any better and the system has failed him.
That's not going to fata him up at all...
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Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan
I am the parent of two kids. If my kid was the one who reciprocated on the little kid by dangerously slamming him down, he'd be in huge trouble. I would hope to think that my kid would walk away from the taunting and know that if he wanted to, he could really hurt someone in that situation.
I don't think the big kid in the video had any such knowledge.
I get your point entirely.
It's easy to say walk away when you're not the one being bullied. Everyone has a breaking point.
The next best choice is #3, because the FK only uses the amount of force required to subdue and prevent future encounters. The problem with this choice is it requires training.
I think this is what is overlooked a lot by some (perhaps because they have little experience in fighting themselves). If you don't have training as a fighter...it can get messy because you have no idea what you are doing, especially when you are young, inexperienced and uncoordinated generally.
A measured response is extremely challenging even if the person delivering it is able to keep 100% control of their mental faculties instead of giving in to their instinctual fight controls.
If my kid was the one who reciprocated on the little kid by dangerously slamming him down, he'd be in huge trouble. I would hope to think that my kid would walk away from the taunting and know that if he wanted to, he could really hurt someone in that situation.
So what you are saying is that you are teaching your kids that they shouldn't stand up for themselves, and should just take whatever s*** someone else wants to dish on them, for as long as that person wants to, or they'll get in trouble at home as well as being continually embarrassed and humiliated at school.
Sure glad I'm not your kid.
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As I mentioned in my previous post, as a parent of the SK, I would be very upset with him when spoke with him. On the other hand, if I was the FK parent, the first thing I would do when he got home is say I am glad he stuck up for himself, BUT he did so in a way that could have been pretty dangerous. I would point out ways he could have better handled the situation, and make him understand that even though he was upset and snapped, he needed to control and funnel that emotion so it didn't get him in trouble in the future.
However, I don't think, given our limited perspective on this incident, that the FK could have done much to have it end up differently. Had he "pushed him on his butt", do you think it would have stopped the SK? I wouldn't bet on it. SK had peer pressure from 2 friends and the fact that the incident was being video taped. If he let a little shove deter him, he would be a laughing stock. The only way this would end well for FK in the long term, is a severe reaction. If he pushes him on his butt and runs away, what happens? He tells a teacher? His parents? Obviously he felt this wouldn't do anything since he had not successfully used either method in the past (or the kid would not have been bullying him).
Since a severe action is the only positive outcome for FK, you have a few options.
1) Use a weapon, either immediately or in the future sometime. Obviously a bad choice.
2) Use the force of his body, in the uncontrolled manner that he did
3) Use some sort of controlled strike or hold to stop the current encounter and prevent further encounters.
4) Contact a person in a position of authority, which the system had lead you to believe will help you in this situation. They can apply the proper sanctions to the individuals deserving.
5) Disregard the possibility of a positive outcome and submit to a beating and humiliation in front of your schoolmates and potentially a large audience on the internet.
Of these options, obviously #4 is the best choice, but that depends on the "system" being one that doesn't implicitly support bullying by neglecting to punish those who perpetrate it. That doesn't exist, and is the root of the problem here.
The next best choice is #3, because the FK only uses the amount of force required to subdue and prevent future encounters. The problem with this choice is it requires training. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize he has none of that training, nor the foreseeable prospects of getting it.
#1 is obviously the last thing we want to see happen.
Unless you are suggesting that he takes #5 as the option, there really is only one choice here, yet you are condemning him for using it because it make you squeamish when he did it? Just because it might have physically hurt the inconsiderate little prick who was tormenting him and causing even more emotional damage than any body slam could possibly muster?
Thank you for your thoughtful post.
My entire comments in this section were based on what I would do if my kid reacted that way. And, I think I've learned a lesson in all of this.
Everyone has a different mind set when it comes to watching this video. Maybe they were the ones that were bullied, maybe they were ones that walked away, maybe they are the ones who did the bullying.
I would hope, and feel comfortable with the fact that my kids woudn't be in this situation.
1) My oldest is huge and plays football and basketball and is very popular. He doesn't allow anyone to bully his friends and he's never ever been a bully/been in trouble for being a bully. I think I've raised him well.
2)My youngest son has been taking Tae Kwon Do with me for years and although he's small, he's never had any issues getting picked on.
3) I teach fitness classes each morning that deal with marital arts and self defense and I think differently on the subject.
For the record, I always called the bully a little turd. I just hate to see kids get physically hurt. I hate to think of violence with kids, and violent reciprocation. The emotional hurt goes way beyond the physical.
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It's easy to say walk away when you're not the one being bullied. Everyone has a breaking point.
Everyone has a breaking point, yes. However, everyone should be given the tools to control by their parents or other authority figures that they never need to reach that breaking point. In this situation there are many factors that could have eliminated the need for FK to do what he did.
The problem, that many people are overlooking, is he didn't have control of enough of those factors to stop it, and 90% of that isn't really his fault.
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Originally Posted by Cain
I think this is what is overlooked a lot by some (perhaps because they have little experience in fighting themselves). If you don't have training as a fighter...it can get messy because you have no idea what you are doing, especially when you are young, inexperienced and uncoordinated generally.
A measured response is extremely challenging even if the person delivering it is able to keep 100% control of their mental faculties instead of giving in to their instinctual fight controls.
People who are pushed enough and are scared will do anything to defend themselves. They are not thnking rationaly and only want what's happening to them to go away. It's not surprising that the FK slammed the SK on the concrete. I don't approve of such actions but it can happen as we have seen.
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So what you are saying is that you are teaching your kids that they shouldn't stand up for themselves, and should just take whatever s*** someone else wants to dish on them, for as long as that person wants to, or they'll get in trouble at home as well as being continually embarrassed and humiliated at school.
Sure glad I'm not your kid.
What I think she is saying, and I might be wrong, is that her kids have the tools and the support, so she doesn't think this would be a problem with them. I feel the same way about my kids.
What her problem was, I am also assuming, is the understanding that FK here, didn't have all those same advantages so can't be judged in the same way.
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I am the parent of two kids. If my kid was the one who reciprocated on the little kid by dangerously slamming him down, he'd be in huge trouble. I would hope to think that my kid would walk away from the taunting and know that if he wanted to, he could really hurt someone in that situation.
My mother gave me that same exact spiel when I was being bullied by other kids in elementary and junior high school. "They're only trying to get you to react," she said, "if you just ignore them, they'll leave you alone." NO THEY WON'T. If kids don't stick up for themselves, they just prove to the bullies that they're an easy target, and they'll continue to be tormented mercilessly. I wish now I hadn't listened to my mother and instead fought back just once against the rat ####### punks who picked on me virtually everyday.
And walking away isn't always possible anyway. I was sometimes cornered by bullies in the locker room while getting changed for gym class. What would you expect a kid to do in that situation? Assuming he could even get away from the bullies, is he supposed to run into the hallway in his underwear?
Last edited by MarchHare; 03-15-2011 at 09:52 PM.
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I am the parent of two kids. If my kid was the one who reciprocated on the little kid by dangerously slamming him down, he'd be in huge trouble. I would hope to think that my kid would walk away from the taunting and know that if he wanted to, he could really hurt someone in that situation.
I don't think the big kid in the video had any such knowledge.
I get your point entirely.
Except in the case of bullying there's no walking away, the bully doesn't gain some grudging respect for you because you showed self control.
Even if someone bully's you and you verbally warn him off, the bully will see that as bluster and target you worse.
You can't walk away from a bully, or try to verbally spare with a bully. Going to his parents or a teacher is worthless unless the kid is thrown out of school and moved far away because he's now going to be resentful that you snitched.
The only way to deal with a bully is to make it uncomfortable for the bully to continue to pick on you.
You might lose the fight or you might win the fight, but you have to make it not so fun or enabling for the bully to pick on you.
I'm not a parent, I was never ever a bully, but I was certainly bullied in elementary and the start of junior high.
Like I've said, my old man could be a hard tough father, and he wasn't all that sympathetic if I didn't at least make an attempt to solve my problems, and he always told me that you had to stand up for yourself because nobody else ever will.
If someone tried to bully me I went into a Frack it, I have nothing left to lose this guy wants to humiliate me in front of everyone and kick my a%%, so I made sure that I got mine out of it.
Bullies don't want to be held by class mates and reassured that everything is all right and we love them. They want power, they want power over you and power over their situation, and you the victim are the gateway to that power.
In this instance you cannot convince me that the actions of the bullied kids weren't the right one. It was brutal, it was painful and it was humiliating for the bully, and maybe the kid will think twice about punching someone in the face for no reason.
And if I was a father I would never crap on my kid for standing up to a bully or standing up for themselves, because it seems like the schools don't do it until its too late, and the parents can't watch their little bully kid 24 hours a day.
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Anti-bullying bill could have prevented daughter?s suicide
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The loss of the Moore's youngest daughter Alex was devastating to the family of five. After her death, Alex's mother, discovered that her kind, sweet and quiet daughter had a secret. She had been bullied in the worst way. But now, the Moore family hopes to help other children who find themselves in the same situation as Alex.
Alex’s Mother, Jill Moore said, "She would get her books knocked to the floor. She would get her rear end touched."
That's just some of what Moore said happened to her 15 year old daughter Alex, at Jemison High School.'
Moore said, "That she had had her pants, panties and all, pulled down, in front some of the students. That she had been locked in the bathroom, she had been locked in the janitor's closet."
It's those incidents that Alex's mom believes led Alex to jump off this bridge, less than a mile from her home, to her death. Not wanting her daughter's death to be forgotten, Jill sought out her state senator, Cam Ward, who introduced “The Alex Moore Anti-Bullying Act” last week in the Alabama Legislature.
Quote:
Moore believes there was a reason, why her daughter chose such a public way to commit suicide.
Moore said, "But, if she was going to do what she did, I had to be thankful that she did it in the most public way that she could have done it by jumping off that bridge because it has brought so much attention to the issue."
That honestly makes me sick, especially the stuff posted after she died. Hopefully those kids wake up one day and realize they're a bigger peice of garbage than they ever imagined. I can't believe no one loses it and offs a couple dirtbags like that.
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