Egypt leaves the Internet, citizens revolt. Update: Internet's back, still revolting.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by peter12

Does anyone get a little disgusted with all of the smug Western encouragement/approval of the Egyptian demonstrations. They don't need cheerleaders, they need bandages.

I certainly agree...but what should be done then? I'm not sure that, outside of a full movement to overthrow the government/installation of a new government (something that I could see no country wishing to take part in), there is much that the rest of the world can do to make the situation any better.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by peter12

Does anyone get a little disgusted with all of the smug Western encouragement/approval of the Egyptian demonstrations. They don't need cheerleaders, they need bandages. Stop acting like you have common cause.

These people are going through something which none of us has or hopefully ever will go through before.

Some of us have a personal connection to the country. Why wouldnt we support something we believe in?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Some of us have a personal connection to the country. Why wouldnt we support something we believe in?

That's a little bit different, I was talking more about the general condescending approval of media outlets and social media users.

Also, what is support? It used to mean that supporting something in another country meant sending money, arms, or medical supplies. People here seem content to just have an opinion.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Some of us have a personal connection to the country. Why wouldnt we support something we believe in?

I'm not sure that's what he meant that it's more the general attitude from all of the Western world, not just the select few with connections (IE Media).

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Some of us have a personal connection to the country. Why wouldnt we support something we believe in?

And even if one doesn't have a personal connection, they're freaking human beings just like you and me and they're going through something that is both righteous and awesome as well as terrifying and horrible. When the people rise up in one voice together like this it is awe inspiring and how can you not "cheer them on" in their cause?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

And even if one doesn't have a personal connection, they're freaking human beings just like you and me and they're going through something that is both righteous and awesome as well as terrifying and horrible. When the people rise up in one voice together like this it is awe inspiring and how can you not "cheer them on" in their cause?

It's condescending. As I said, we have no common cause, we are not dying in the streets for a moral or political goal. We consider activism to be well... cheer-leading. I, for one, am rather turned off by it. I'd prefer to just pretend it wasn't happening if that was the only other alternative.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Perhaps, but the international community would come down on them like a tonne of bricks. The economic sanctions alone by some countries for allowing the Egyptian situation to escalate to slaughter would be devestating to the Russians.

You must be speaking of some other international community.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's condescending. As I said, we have no common cause, we are not dying in the streets for a moral or political goal. We consider activism to be well... cheer-leading. I, for one, am rather turned off by it. I'd prefer to just pretend it wasn't happening if that was the only other alternative.

I'd say freedom is our common cause. Free people want to see oppressed people liberated. Hopefully it also makes people here realize how lucky we are. I'd rather be a cheerleader than an ostrich as you seem to prefer.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'd say freedom is our common cause. Free people want to see oppressed people liberated. Hopefully it also makes people here realize how lucky we are. I'd rather be a cheerleader than an ostrich as you seem to prefer.

I understand where you are coming from, and I certainly prefer freedom over despotism, but as to your final sentence. I would say being a cheerleader is being an ostrich. This is not some simple idealized liberal revolution, where in the end, everything is alright. This is a brutal, confused struggle with no clear winner or ending. People are dying, and here we are simply cheering them on.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's condescending. As I said, we have no common cause, we are not dying in the streets for a moral or political goal. We consider activism to be well... cheer-leading. I, for one, am rather turned off by it. I'd prefer to just pretend it wasn't happening if that was the only other alternative.

YOU, of all people on CP, would rather stick your head in the sand than have an opinion on this? What do you actually care more about: the situation in Egypt or the western media's coverage?

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by peter12

Also, what is support? It used to mean that supporting something in another country meant sending money, arms, or medical supplies. People here seem content to just have an opinion.

What about Facebook groups? If 'like' it, does that count??

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

YOU, of all people on CP, would rather stick your head in the sand than have an opinion on this? What do you actually care more about: the situation in Egypt or the western media's coverage?

The Western media's coverage, obviously. I have absolutely no connection with the Egyptian situation. It's not my duty or right to pretend that I do. That is their struggle, I can think of ways to help, but having an opinion has nothing to do with it.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by peter12

I understand where you are coming from, and I certainly prefer freedom over despotism, but as to your final sentence. I would say being a cheerleader is being an ostrich. This is not some simple idealized liberal revolution, where in the end, everything is alright. This is a brutal, confused struggle with no clear winner or ending. People are dying, and here we are simply cheering them on.

I'd say this is more of a liberal struggle than a confused frenzied revolt. Its bound to be messy overthrowing 60 years of tyranny. The regime supporters are scared they'll be at the end of a noose if they lose. It might look bleak at the moment, but thats until Mubarak gives up. Theres nothing wrong with cheerleading your principles and beliefs in action, it sure beats pretending they're your beliefs until its inconvenient to uphold them.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

The Western media's coverage, obviously. I have absolutely no connection with the Egyptian situation. It's not my duty or right to pretend that I do. That is their struggle, I can think of ways to help, but having an opinion has nothing to do with it.

So rather than think of the people and their quest for freedom you're worried about how the whole thing is affecting you based on the media's presentation of things? Are you serious or just playing Devil's Advocate? BTC summed it up perfectly when he said that people who enjoy freedom want everyone to have the same freedom to enjoy.

Sometimes the best thing you can do to help, is care.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'd say this is more of a liberal struggle than a confused frenzied revolt. Its bound to be messy overthrowing 60 years of tyranny. The regime supporters are scared they'll be at the end of a noose if they lose. It might look bleak at the moment, but thats until Mubarak gives up. Theres nothing wrong with cheerleading your principles and beliefs in action, it sure beats pretending they're your beliefs until its inconvenient to uphold them.

See, that's insulting. Egyptians are not Western liberals. Let's stop treating them like they are our little brothers. Different country, different problems, different solutions. None of which any of us have any right commenting on at this stage.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

So rather than think of the people and their quest for freedom you're worried about how the whole thing is affecting you based on the media's presentation of things? Are you serious or just playing Devil's Advocate? BTC summed it up perfectly when he said that people who enjoy freedom want everyone to have the same freedom to enjoy.

Sometimes the best thing you can do to help, is care.

I was hoping that at the very least the underlined word hyperlinked to some charity or something. Vague caring and undirected benevolence is one of the WORST facets of Western democracy. All the moral self-superiority without having to raise a finger.

I have a nasty streak of contrarian in me, but in this case, I have to say that most of my position is driven by pure irritation.

[VladtheImpaler]

I can see peter's POV - while Mubarak is an unpleasant character, if he is overthrown, will the people of Egypt be better off? I don't know. Saddam was a much nastier character, but are the people of Iraq better off now that he is gone? I don't know. Were the people of Russia better off after the Tsar was overthrown in 1917? Not so sure. Were the people of Russia better off when Communists were in turn overthrown? Not so sure. These things are rarely black & white...

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by peter12

See, that's insulting. Egyptians are not Western liberals. Let's stop treating them like they are our little brothers. Different country, different problems, different solutions. None of which any of us have any right commenting on at this stage.

You, I, and everyone else have the "right" to comment on whatever we so choose. Don't be absurd. I think what you're trying to say is "anyone who opens their mouth about this I think is a fool." Thats calling a lot of people fools. How is it up there on the mountain?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

You, I, and everyone else have the "right" to comment on whatever we so choose. Don't be absurd. I think what you're trying to say is "anyone who opens their mouth about this I think is a fool." Thats calling a lot of people fools. How is it up there on the mountain?

Surprisingly cold?

I'm not saying don't comment on it, I'm saying don't act like you common cause with the Egyptians.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by peter12

See, that's insulting. Egyptians are not Western liberals. Let's stop treating them like they are our little brothers. Different country, different problems, different solutions. None of which any of us have any right commenting on at this stage.

You know whats insulting? Thinking people in a foreign land can't comprehend our way of life, or that they couldnt handle or live in such a society. Theres millions of very westernized people living in Egypt. The common thread from these protests has been, freedom, democracy, and equal rights. Your desire to label and group people based on preconceived notions is unfortunate.