Why were the Japanese so cruel in WW2?

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by sa226

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire or anything,

but weren't a majority of the German soldiers unaware of the concentration camps? Did the average German citizen know about what their beloved fuhrer was up to? I don't know the answer I just think the accusations of brutality is relative.

To answer this bluntly, absolutely, they were aware of both. Having been to Dachau it became immediately clear to me that everyone knew about it. Especially those in Munich, it's practically right beside the city.

As for the larger concentration camps and the death camps, I suspect that many knew about them, but I came away from my concentration camp experience with the resolute feeling that there was absolutely nothing you could do about it. One voice does not resonate, it is quickly silenced. One voice is required to create a chorus, but there is no way anyone would be that voice.

This doesn't excuse the German people, but they were influenced by the smooth talking of a mad man. Hitler preyed upon the discontent of his country and turned that into something extremely powerful and scary. And one thing that seems lost in all of this is the anti-semitism of the rest of the world, not just in Germany.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

China and Japan are fighting over the Senkaku Islands so they still hate each other.
Anytime Japan comes to China for anything, sport, convention, academics they get attacked.

I don't think the Japanese were extraordinarily cruel. Look at places like Cambodia, Africa, former Yugoslavia and the genocide that existed in those place.

Yea genocide exists in those places but with the Japense and Germans during WW2 it was on an entirely different level altogether, Japanese raped killed an murdered over 23 million ethnic Chinese not including military personnel. 30 odd million people altogether.

A large part of the why there is still conflict is how the government of Japan handles the matter. Asian society is a lot about saving face and since a fair amount of pre-war government officials survived post-war, there is a lot of white-washing and re-writing of history because the Japanese government refuses to admit or compensate victims of past atrocities. This leads to a lot of continual bad blood and attacks to bring light to the matter. Germans on the other hand have done a lot better in this regard.

As for the Senkaku Islands, these islands were originally Chinese territory pre-war with Japan, however they weren't returned following the WW2 and the Chinese have been raising a stink about it for years.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Yeah, the Americans weren't particularly kind to the Japanese people.

Everyone was cruel in the war though, Americans, Japanese, Germans, Russians.

Kinda funny how everyone forgets the Italians were in that war too, and on the wrong side, I might add.

[jazzman172]

In all wars there is enough suffering to go around. The first rule of war is to dehumanize the face of the enemy thus justifying your actions. Sometimes that 'enemy' is in your own back yard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...ian_internment

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by SoulOfTheFlame

Kinda funny how everyone forgets the Italians were in that war too, and on the wrong side, I might add.

I bet they wish they could forget they were in it too..

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

I think it's a bit much to suggest the dropping of the 2 atomic bombs were the best options, in so far suggesting it saved millions of lives.

I have heard people of Japanese decent suggest this. Both on television in in my personal life.

In the last 18 months the country KNEW it was losing the war but refused to surrender or tell it's citizens. The whole 'honor' in battle thing had the country wound up in a very weird way.

It's not a nice thing to think about (the bombs), but there were worse possible outcomes. For both sides.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

As for the Senkaku Islands, these islands were originally Chinese territory pre-war with Japan, however they weren't returned following the WW2 and the Chinese have been raising a stink about it for years.

This is absolutely wrong. Here is a PDF of a run down of the dispute which started in 1970. Needless to say it is far more nuanced than saying Japan didn't return it after the war. This is a territorial dispute that goes back 100's of years.

This PDF gives China's position and Japan's position as well as strengths and weaknesses of each.

A list of Japan's apologies.

As for Japanese text books. No the do not all whitewash the past. Yes there are some that do but that is comparable to textbooks in NA that teach creationism as science. They are pushed by a small group of nationalists that no one likes. These textbooks face a lot of scrutiny IN Japan when there are changes made.

In June 2007, the Okinawa Prefectural Assembly officially asked the Ministry of Education of Japan to retract its instruction to downplay the military's role in mass suicide in Okinawa in 1945.[21] More than 100,000 people in Okinawa rallied against the text book changes at the end of September.

[HOZ]

IMO, as for why Japan was so cruel.

A poisonous mix of :
1. A sense of superiority over their neighbours
2. Bushido (Way of the Warrior) was promoted extensively in the military
- to be captured and not die bravely in battle was worse than death. People who willingly allowed themselves to be captured were seen as worse than offal.
3. An education, pre-military and in military, that promoted 1 and 2 and the view of the Emperor as God-like and infallible.


Just to remind people. Until the Emperor made his announcement on the radio that japan was surrendering to the Americans.....most Japanese thought they were winning the war.

How could that possibly be? Well for a modern example you just have to travel 400KM west of Japan to see a perfect example in North Korea.

[theonlywhiteout]

i have a tough time with the idea that japanese civilians thought the war was being won. the americans burned half the country to the ground before the nukes.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

i have a tough time with the idea that japanese civilians thought the war was being won. the americans burned half the country to the ground before the nukes.

North Koreans believe they are the strongest, most advanced country in the world. There are people who think this Earth s only 6000 years old.

They believe what they are told and have no access to outside information. Hence the reason for disconnect from reality....for the Koreans and Japanese...

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by sa226

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire or anything,

but weren't a majority of the German soldiers unaware of the concentration camps? Did the average German citizen know about what their beloved fuhrer was up to? I don't know the answer I just think the accusations of brutality is relative.

Heck, the now famous Easy company, took on the persona of Iroquois Indians and shaved their heads into mohawks and some even skinned the heads of the Germans. Of course that part is cleverly left out of "Band of Brothers"

No country, Allied or Axis was above brutality.

Originally Posted by kermitology

To answer this bluntly, absolutely, they were aware of both. Having been to Dachau it became immediately clear to me that everyone knew about it. Especially those in Munich, it's practically right beside the city.

As for the larger concentration camps and the death camps, I suspect that many knew about them, but I came away from my concentration camp experience with the resolute feeling that there was absolutely nothing you could do about it. One voice does not resonate, it is quickly silenced. One voice is required to create a chorus, but there is no way anyone would be that voice.

This doesn't excuse the German people, but they were influenced by the smooth talking of a mad man. Hitler preyed upon the discontent of his country and turned that into something extremely powerful and scary. And one thing that seems lost in all of this is the anti-semitism of the rest of the world, not just in Germany.

Wrong,

I've got family that fought in ww2 for the Germans. They were forced at gunpoint at 12 and 14 year old boys in Munich to fight. The later fled west and surrendered to the Americans. There were rumors about it but nothing was set in stone. Got to remember that this wasn't the age of TV and Internet, so the information that was out wasn't that great. It would be hard to think that your leaders would be capable of trying to kill off and entire race of people.

[Montagna]

Just finished a great book on an American POW in Japan. "Unbroken: A World War 2 Story of Survival, Resilience and Redemption" by Laura Hillenbrand. Gives great insight into the Japanese culture of the time. No retreat, no surrender.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

i have a tough time with the idea that japanese civilians thought the war was being won. the americans burned half the country to the ground before the nukes.

I think you have lived a very sheltered life.

War isn't something that anyone with a stable mind would ever wish for. It is the worst thing that man could ever do. All sides in the war (canadians too) killed people and probably killed an innocent person on accident or on purpose.

The biggest issue is that we should come away from what happened in WW2 and use it as an example to never allow these atrocities to ever happen again.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Yea genocide exists in those places but with the Japense and Germans during WW2 it was on an entirely different level altogether, Japanese raped killed an murdered over 23 million ethnic Chinese not including military personnel. 30 odd million people altogether.

It's hard to compare numbers. It's 23 million because they happen to be all in one place! That's 23 million people out of nearly 800 million or so at the time.

If someone invaded Canada now, they couldn't kill 23 million people no matter how evil they were!

[CaptainCrunch]

23 million people is still 23 million people, the 800 million means nothing.

And given time, the Japanese would have certainly tried hard to increase that number.

[GirlySports]

Numbers matter. Concentration of people inflates the numbers.

For example if today somebody invaded and raped Shanghai, 23 million people would die. If someone invaded and raped Edmonton less than 1 million people would die.

Doesn't make the rape of Shanghai worse than that of Edmonton, they are the same.

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I think you have lived a very sheltered life.

I live a sheltered life because I think it's hard to believe that people living in a half destroyed country being subject to daily bombings think the wars going well?

Uh Huh.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

I live a sheltered life because I think it's hard to believe that people living in a half destroyed country being subject to daily bombings think the wars going well?

Uh Huh.

?

Yeah I guess ask the Russians about that...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Numbers matter. Concentration of people inflates the numbers.

For example if today somebody invaded and raped Shanghai, 23 million people would die. If someone invaded and raped Edmonton less than 1 million people would die.

Doesn't make the rape of Shanghai worse than that of Edmonton, they are the same.

All that means is that they would kill Edmonton faster.

The Japanese exterminated near every person in China that they came across, or at least tried to.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

I live a sheltered life because I think it's hard to believe that people living in a half destroyed country being subject to daily bombings think the wars going well?

Uh Huh.

So how come no surrender was offered by the Japanese?