Why were the Japanese so cruel in WW2?

[Smelly Fred]

Read a good thought provoking article in the latest Military History magazine on this topic. The Japanese murdered many prisoners, often using them for bayonet practice as they slowly killed their victims. They recorded themselves proudly beheading people from POW's to Chinese citizens.
They raped and then murdered captured nurses in Hong Kong and Singapore, then entire cities like Nanking. It was medieval like in their fury and blood lust.
What made them so cruel?
Why did they hate their captors so? What drove them to suicidal fanaticism?

The article tackles one aspect, because there are many, in racism as being a major motivational factor. The Japanese were late into the 19th and early 20th century race for colonial spoils. They felt shut out by Western nations. Adding to their natural Xenophobia, their worship of Emperor as God and their fanatical Samurai cults where surrendering meant you could be treated like cattle, they also felt inferior whicj led to hatred of the white man. In particular the Americans became the focus of their racial hatred. They also despised the Chinese and other Asian nations as being inferior people meant to serve the Japanese masters.

Driven on by their authoritarian officers the ordinary soldiers were brutal and cruel to any who fell in their path. POW's stood a 4% chance of dying in a German POW camp but a 27% chance in a Japenese. Starved, beaten and executed the allied prisoners suffered enormous privations compared to their comrades in arms in Europe.

The US army and marines soon reralised they were in a terrible fight to the finish. The war became a racial war which has not been duscussed much after the fact. Very few prisoners were taken on either side during the conflict. It is also important to understand this fury and haterd these opponents had for one another when understanding the use of the atom bomb to defeat the Japanese. The Japenese people were so motivated to fight and kill Americans that it was felt that millions of casualties would ensue if an invasion of Japan had taken place. I don't believe HArry Trueman and his generals had any other choice than to drop those terrible bombs. I believe they would have kept dropping them if the Japanese had continued to resist.

It is incredible now to see the harmonious relations between Japan and the USA and to think of how they once despised one another so that they would die in fighting rather than surrender.

What led Japan down that path? Could it happen again or have all the conditions been removed for that possibility? Was there a collective madness taking place on our planet in the 1930's and 40's? Why did we cover up the aspect of a racial war or do you disagree with that synopsis?

(Copied from my post on another web site)
http://www.irishabroad.com/Discussio...&CategoryID=11

[theonlywhiteout]

Before I even read your post and respond directly to your question, keep in mind that American strategic bombing burned millions of Japanese civilians to death in unprecedented fire bombings.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

Before I even read your post and respond directly to your question, keep in mind that American strategic bombing burned millions of Japanese civilians to death in unprecedented fire bombings.

Yeah, the Americans weren't particularly kind to the Japanese people.

Everyone was cruel in the war though, Americans, Japanese, Germans, Russians.

[pylon]

Man, that is not a question that can be so simply asked. That was an entirely different time in history, and life was a lot cheaper not just to the Japanese, but to the entire planet. We now have the benefit of the information age, and don't believe everything our governments tell us. Even in developed countries that try and control information, the truth can still be found, outside of maybe North Korea, which in itself is actually quite an achievement on their part to keep the propaganda machine running.

Think about it. If your government which you were willing to die for, was telling you about an evil regime that was going to change your way of life, and take over the world..... Would you show mercy not knowing any better?

[T@T]

In those days the Japanese culture was never to be taken prisoner or your a coward, even mothers and fathers told their kids to commit suicide if your caught. This is the main reason for their cruelty as well. they treated prisoners who surrendered as cowards and didn't deserve to live.

I read somewhere that an estimated 10~15 million civilians alone would have committed suicide if the Americans would have successfully invaded Japan with ground troops.

The two A-bombs saved a lot of lives and a country.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by T@T

The two A-bombs saved a lot of lives and a country.

Yep. A lot of people don't realize that the estimates for casualties in a ground assault on Japan were into the millions or something. Way above the casualties of the A-Bombs.

[theonlywhiteout]

I think it's a bit much to suggest the dropping of the 2 atomic bombs were the best options, in so far suggesting it saved millions of lives.

[CaptainCrunch]

They were facist fanatics who believed that every other race but there's was inferior.

And while you can question the American's because of their city bombing campaigns, the American's went know where near the levels of barbarism that the Japanese bent to in their treatment of captured lands and captured people.

Because of their levels of fanaticism, they left the allies little choice in how they ended the Japanese empire and how they dealt with the military leaders who survived to meet justice.

Personally if I had been a marine, and had come across the oceans and seen the kamikazee attacks and heard about how they had bayoneted prisoners, and how they fought to the last man, I wouldn't have been too inclined to take prisoners.

The Japanese honor code that they fought by was a funny little thing, because it wasn't all that honorable if you weren't Japanese.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by T@T

In those days the Japanese culture was never to be taken prisoner or your a coward, even mothers and fathers told their kids to commit suicide if your caught. This is the main reason for their cruelty as well. they treated prisoners who surrendered as cowards and didn't deserve to live.

I read somewhere that an estimated 10~15 million civilians alone would have committed suicide if the Americans would have successfully invaded Japan with ground troops.

The two A-bombs saved a lot of lives and a country.

Bull crap.

It's one thing for the parents to tell the kids something, but it's another thing for the kids and adults to actually go ahead and commit suicide when the time comes.

I hope you don't actually believe 10-15 million people were going to commit suicide. That's insane.

I guess anything to defend America though.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Bull crap.

It's one thing for the parents to tell the kids something, but it's another thing for the kids and adults to actually go ahead and commit suicide when the time comes.

I hope you don't actually believe 10-15 million people were going to commit suicide. That's insane.

I guess anything to defend America though.

You would be surprised. Look at the Kamikaze bombers. They full well knew they were on suicide missions. Faith in god was much, much different then. There was not the same skepticism and doubt we have now.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

I think it's a bit much to suggest the dropping of the 2 atomic bombs were the best options, in so far suggesting it saved millions of lives.

So what were the other options.

First and foremost, the American's had intercepted communications ordering the Japanese Military to fight to the last man. Propaganda broadcasts to civilians extorted them to fight the American's to the death.

The American's were also unnerved by the Kamikaze attacks on the U.S. Navy.

The way I see it there were several options

1) Diplomacy - Wouldn't have worked, if it took two A-Bombs to end the Japanese threat, and the Japanese military didn't want to surrender after Hiroshima and Nagasaki were dust, that was the Emperor finally actually showing some balls.

2) Maritime Blockade - They would have starved that Island to death, and they might not have surrendered

3) Land Invasion - The cost of American lives would have been immense and gutted the American's of a generation of young men.

4) Continued Air Bombing - At the end of the day, casualties to Japanese Civilians like in a land campaign would have been far higher then the levels caused by the bombs, and the American's would have blasted more then two cities into the ground.

5) Use the bombs - The Yanks had the weapons, they used one, no surrender they used the second. It also kept the Soviets out of that theater of war and might have prevented Stalin from continuing to fight into asia.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Bull crap.

He's right. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Bull crap.

It's one thing for the parents to tell the kids something, but it's another thing for the kids and adults to actually go ahead and commit suicide when the time comes.

I hope you don't actually believe 10-15 million people were going to commit suicide. That's insane.

I guess anything to defend America though.

What about the mass suicides in Saipan when they realized the American invasion was going to succeed?

Those were all civillians, in fact the Japanese marines provided them with cover fire so that the American's couldn't stop them.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by pylon

You would be surprised. Look at the Kamikaze bombers. They full well knew they were on suicide missions. Faith in god was much, much different then. There was not the same skepticism and doubt we have now.

Yeah, but he didn't say anything about suicide attacks. Kamikaze bombers had missions and a purpose.

Blowing your brains out because Americans were going to ground invade your country and you felt shame is ridiciculous and there is no way 10-15 million people were going to commit suicide. Absolutely no way. Even with suicide attacks in Iraq now what are the numbers? a couple hundred maybe a month?

And Iraq still has as much faith in god and huge culture values as Japan did.

I find it hilarious how anyone can say the A-bombs saved lives. People are still living with the consequences from those bombs till this day.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

He's right. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe it.

Look what up? 10-15 million people never commited suicide.

[theonlywhiteout]

Crunch it's impossible to determine if diplomacy would have failed or if different tactics would have failed. The atomic bombs worked, and there's a good chance they saved Japanese and American lives: but if winning the war took dropping a nuclear bomb on 2 cities and killing hundreds of thousands of women and children there has to be at least the discussion about proportionality.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

What about the mass suicides in Saipan when they realized the American invasion was going to succeed?

Those were all civillians, in fact the Japanese marines provided them with cover fire so that the American's couldn't stop them.

Yeah, after the Japanese government lied to there people and claimed the Americans were going to torture them. I'd commit suicide too.

I'm not denying the fact that some would commit suicide, but in the millions? not a chance.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Look what up? 10-15 million people never commited suicide.

A good chunk of the 22,000 civilian casualties in Saipan chose to end their own lives rather then submit to the Americans.

Japanese culture venerated suicide back then, from killing yourself to atone for your failures, to killing yourself to avoid honorless capture.

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Yeah, after the Japanese government lied to there people and claimed the Americans were going to torture them. I'd commit suicide too.

I'm not denying the fact that some would cimmit suicide, but in the millions? not a chance.

Agreed puckluck. It's one thing to have troops run kamikaze missions, and another to suggest 20 million civilians killing themselves.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Yeah, after the Japanese government lied to there people and claimed the Americans were going to torture them. I'd commit suicide too.

I'm not denying the fact that some would cimmit suicide, but in the millions? not a chance.

And you don't think their government had filled the main land civilians with the same sh%t.

If the Marines had gone ashore there would have been millions of civilian casualties. Both from suicide and Civilians helping to defend their home island.