The Day the Royal British Legion met Hitler - Interesting Video

[Locke]

According to the narrator of the video, as the Royal British Legion was moving offices they stumbled onto a video of a delegation that was sent to meet with Hitler.

The footage shows the British delegation on a peace-mission to Germany in 1935, before the outbreak of World War Two.

Five Legion officials came face to face with Hitler at an unexpected meeting at his Chancellery and are seen shaking hands with his deputy Rudolph Hess.

During their trip, the Legionnaires were also taken on a tour of Germany's first concentration camp at Dachau before having supper with Himmler, the head of the SS.

They also met reconstructive surgeon Karl Gebhardt who, a year after their visit, joined the SS and later performed surgical experiments on inmates at Auschwitz.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...115789034?f=vg

Theres a video there as well, but I thought that bolded part was particularly interesting.

They were taken on a tour of a Concentration Camp? They didnt think something was up?

[Caged Great]

At that time, it wasn't probably being used in the manner that it ended up being. It was probably being used as a prison, or probably were told that anyway.

[mykalberta]

neville nhamberlain's legacy is like the energizer bunny, it just keeps going and going and going and going.

[kermitology]

Something to keep in mind is that Dachau was not an extermination camp, but a concentration camp. There's a pretty massive difference between the two. Originally it was a prison for policial prisoners, of which there were many in Germany obviously.

[CaptainCrunch]

I would think that Dachau was used very much like the Hanoi Hilton was used in Vietnam as a propaganda camp to show that the German's were a kind and compassionate people.

It didn't become a horror camp until after the war was declared.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would think that Dachau was used very much like the Hanoi Hilton was used in Vietnam as a propaganda camp to show that the German's were a kind and compassionate people.

It didn't become a horror camp until after the war was declared.

Obviously very true, it just seems odd to me that they went on a tour of a concentration camp or, whatever you want to call it in its pre-war form well before the war started.

Doesnt that strike anyone else as odd?

"This is our camp for, well, you know, just in case a war breaks out. Gotta have these babies ready to go at a moment's notice...."

"Quite."
"Rather."

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Locke

Obviously very true, it just seems odd to me that they went on a tour of a concentration camp or, whatever you want to call it in its pre-war form well before the war started.

Doesnt that strike anyone else as odd?

"This is our camp for, well, you know, just in case a war breaks out. Gotta have these babies ready to go at a moment's notice...."

"Quite."
"Rather."

Not odd at all. Auschwitz 1 was built out of an army barracks, and even today looks more like a university residence than anything particularly sinister.

Well, except for the barbed wire and gun towers of course.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Not odd at all. Auschwitz 1 was built out of an army barracks, and even today looks more like a university residence than anything particularly sinister.

Well, except for the barbed wire and gun towers of course.

I dunno....my University residence was pretty close....

[bigtmac19]

I believe these were always called "work" camps, and I'm sure they had some excellent explanations for the purpose of these places, probably made them sound like they were doing people a favour by letting them stay there.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

I believe these were always called "work" camps, and I'm sure they had some excellent explanations for the purpose of these places, probably made them sound like they were doing people a favour by letting them stay there.

Its actually interesting that you bring this point up.

I didnt fully grasp this, but I was watching a documentary on TV last night about Auschwitz and one of the survivors explained that the German soldiers were so polite, and soft spoken and courteous when they were helping people off the train.

They would tell thim that everything was going to be ok, they were going to get a good meal and a clean room where their family could stay safely until the war was over, they were going to be well taken care of, right after you have this shower....

And the deception that they put on with certain parts of the camps. The illusion of safety and security that the prisoners were given while in the camps themselves was unbelievable.

When I originally saw this article, what came to my mind was the claim 'nobody knew' and then we see this where the British are taking a tour of a reknowned Death Camp and that challenged the claim of never knowing in my mind. Then you see the unreal amount of effort that they place in deception and in my mind if reaffirms that even though they toured the damn place in advance theres no way they could have known.

In another way of looking at things though, imagine the mindjob that must have done on the people who went on that tour when they later find out exactly what went on in that 'work camp.'

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that we have to remember that there was a pretty heavy facist underground movement in the UK prior to WWII. Hitler's message just wasn't effective in Germany, but it reached far and wide. He was sited as someone who stood up for his country, and all of the crap that was piled on it especially by the French.

He was the guy that spit in the eye of the international community. He was brute force personified in terms of trying to get Germany back on track.

Nobody saw the monster side of him, remember the Duke of Windsor was incredibly sympathetic to Hitler.

There was even a fairly large contigent of Nazi's in America.

People admire strength in their leaders, thats why there was admiration for Stalin and his murderous hero projects, thats why there was worship in Japan in a minor way for the Emperor, but for their WWII Military leaders.

They got things done, and they were ruthless and jaded, but in that period of time, epecially with the Great Depression there was that feeling that "The World needed order" (Star Trek Khan). A prison camp was no big thing to these men, because they were common, and its not like the Nazi's during the tour accidentillay let it slip that the furnace was build to incinerate jews.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think that we have to remember that there was a pretty heavy facist underground movement in the UK prior to WWII. Hitler's message just wasn't effective in Germany, but it reached far and wide. He was sited as someone who stood up for his country, and all of the crap that was piled on it especially by the French.

He was the guy that spit in the eye of the international community. He was brute force personified in terms of trying to get Germany back on track.

Nobody saw the monster side of him, remember the Duke of Windsor was incredibly sympathetic to Hitler.

There was even a fairly large contigent of Nazi's in America.

People admire strength in their leaders, thats why there was admiration for Stalin and his murderous hero projects, thats why there was worship in Japan in a minor way for the Emperor, but for their WWII Military leaders.

They got things done, and they were ruthless and jaded, but in that period of time, epecially with the Great Depression there was that feeling that "The World needed order" (Star Trek Khan). A prison camp was no big thing to these men, because they were common, and its not like the Nazi's during the tour accidentillay let it slip that the furnace was build to incinerate jews.

It really was a 'perfect storm' in a lot of ways and a lot of people are responsible. A lot more thanmost people care to admit.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Locke

It really was a 'perfect storm' in a lot of ways and a lot of people are responsible. A lot more thanmost people care to admit.

but mostly Neville Chamberlain

[Locke]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

but mostly Neville Chamberlain

That dirty son of a bitch! Well, I shouldnt say that, I want to appease everyone....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

It really was a 'perfect storm' in a lot of ways and a lot of people are responsible. A lot more thanmost people care to admit.

The beginning to middle of the 20th century was also the perfect incubator for these types of leaders. If you look at the concept of Global depression, and the start of the crumbling of empire building, it was no surprise that we had the rise of facism in Germany, Japan, Italy and Spain. It was also no surprise that we saw the rise of war communism at the start of the century with Lenin (who was not a nice man) and later Stalin. China took a while to get its monster, but it wasn't unusual because the Chinese were used to being ruled and not governed.

We even saw the continued rise of authoritarian dictator ships after the war, however that was due to installed governments in conquest states.

Is there a possibility of another era of iron fisted rulers? I would think that we go through cycles in terms of what we expect from our leaders, and as much as we harken on the hard times that are happening now in the States for example, and we are seeing a rise in further right politispeak I don't think people will accept another Iron man ruler in the immediate future. But as economies continue to struggle, and resourceses and food become more contested I believe that we will see the rise of another series of incredibly tough and ruthless national leaders who will crush dissidents, impose command economies and make the decision to go to war quicker and crueler.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Not odd at all. Auschwitz 1 was built out of an army barracks, and even today looks more like a university residence than anything particularly sinister.

Well, except for the barbed wire and gun towers of course.

Have you been to Auschwitz? It isn't like a university at all. It is essentially how it was in 1945 minus the Nazis.

[CaptainCrunch]

I still remember reading that the German's were bought in to tour Auschwitz and acted surprised that it was a death camp. They had convinced themselves that it was a sausage factory.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Is there a possibility of another era of iron fisted rulers? I would think that we go through cycles in terms of what we expect from our leaders, and as much as we harken on the hard times that are happening now in the States for example, and we are seeing a rise in further right politispeak I don't think people will accept another Iron man ruler in the immediate future. But as economies continue to struggle, and resourceses and food become more contested I believe that we will see the rise of another series of incredibly tough and ruthless national leaders who will crush dissidents, impose command economies and make the decision to go to war quicker and crueler.

I think it's unlikely. People have too much access to information in this day and age. Handheld cameras, the internet, etc... all make pulling the wool over the eyes of an entire population very difficult.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't know if I agree, we saw the ruthless government crackdown in Iran and the government there didn't care about camcorders and cellphones at all.

The Russian destruction of Chechnya, was similar, all of the international outcries in the world didn't stop the Russians from leveling that country.

Even in terms of first world nations, if the people get sick and tired of governmental failures over a long enough period of time, they might be willing to trade some liberties for a leader that ruthlessly gets things done, and then your on the slope.

[Table 5]

Mmmm iron fisting