First they came for the homework...

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by bcb

Oh, I certainly agree. I've seen enough armchair teachers (Fraser Institute) who think tests and quantitative results tell the whole story. I just argue; however, that testing does play a meaningful role in assessing knowledge outcomes and teaching time management skills.

Absolutely, I mean, I should clarify my post. I still give tests (of course, sometimes you have to) ... just saying from time to time I change up how they are done. This crusade these parents are on seems like nothing but a combination of a power trip and a mislead attempt to make their child's lives better - but did they REALLY think it through - and the problems it might cause them in their adult lives?

[evman150]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Suite yourself. That's just my opinion.

Can't tell if this is serious or not.

:/

[Rathji]

Life is a test. If I don't know something for work, I need to find it out or ...

a) I look like an idiot
b) not be able to get the things done that I need to and/or
c) lose my company time and money.

I wonder if my mom can do something about that...

[ma-skis.com]

Reading the article, it sounds like these parents are teaching the kids to study without homework, so notes, text, doing problems on their own, that's kind of what most high schools expect. I know when I was in high school, homework checks were few and far between.

Maybe those teachers are in a school where there is little parent support or awareness and assign all that work as a way to ensure that students review topics at home. How many 13 year old kids go home and read their notes without encouragement.

The problem really is how much is enough, is it fair to make the kid who achieves understanding quickly to do the all the extra work as well, or is it fair to the kid who needs to do the all the extra work to establish clear routines to make their extra work worthless so the quicker kid doesn't get assessed for it?

University takes that away by implementing three tests a semester, you do as much as you need to to establish understanding. Junior High (and many first year university) students don't have the maturity or self-awareness to really determine what enough is.

The testing... 70-80 tests seems like a lot... some of them gotta be quizzes or short tests, another teaching tool, putting the amount of studying a kid does in one night into smaller portions, reducing cramming... maybe if they did more homework they wouldn't have to study so much though.

whatever it is, if i were these kids, I'd probably be tired of my parents getting so involved by the time i got to junior high. Imagine the crap they get from the other kids whose parents support all the homework and testing. Is it fair that they are so special?

[CaptainCrunch]

Tests are effective at pointing out to teachers which students are falling behind and might need extra help. I think that tests are necessary and important.

These parents are effectively taking away any means of tracking these kids knowledge levels.

I've always thought that homework taught responsibility, dealing with pressure and demonstrating the knowledge level of the subject.

I hope that someone from the schoolboard tells these parents that they're more then welcome to homeschool their kids, but they still have to pass the departmental exams.

[JohnnyB]

As an educator and an administrator working in K-12 I find what these parents are saying in the article to be quite reasonable. They seem to be more involved in their kids' education than most and are attempting to get school support for a more holistic approach to their children's education and upbringing. Also, if their children are receiving better results and have a more balanced and healthy home life then I think the schools should support these parents' initiative with their own children at least.

[Traditional_Ale]

I lived in Germany from 1992-1995, so my last year in school there was Yr 7, or in Canada Grade 6. At this age in science class we more often than not were using things like bunson burners and blowing up things like sodium or magnesium. Sex education videos involved actually showing the penis entering the vagina. Shop class involved things like welding. Then moving back to Canada when I realized that all they did was read from a book and write a test, I tuned right out. Didn't get any good grades again other than music until my senior year of high school when we finally got to do some cool stuff again, like dissecting cow hearts and such.

Like many people, I am not a book learner. I never took chemistry, or biology, or physics. Actually, it took me two tries to pass Math 24!!! Since I went to audio school, I can RT-60 a room (an RT-60 is a measurement of the sound absorbing properties of different construction materials) and then even shoot the room using pink noise to measure standing waves and place treatments accordingly. Once you get into the meat of it, it is some damn complicated physics, but I get it because there is a direct and practical application of the theory to use. Same with playing instruments I guess, because I can play damn near anything. If everything is only ever abstract theory with no practical application then there is only so much a young mind can deal with in a day, especially when only thinking about going home to practice music and fap to porn.

So I fully support these parents and their wishes for their children's education. I can't remember who I'm quoting when I say:

Tell me and I may forget. Show me and I may remember. Involve me, and I will understand.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

So I fully support these parents and their wishes for their children's education. I can't remember who I'm quoting when I say:

Tell me and I may forget. Show me and I may remember. Involve me, and I will understand.

Except they don't want to have a more involved education for their kids, they just want less tests because it takes up too much time in the evenings. I fully agree that our education system could be much better, but the improvements you are suggesting are a far cry from simply "less testing"

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I hope that someone from the schoolboard tells these parents that they're more then welcome to homeschool their kids, but they still have to pass the departmental exams.

This is another point. If the parents are so involved in their kid's educations, they should homeschool them, rather than force the whole system to change just for their kid.

Obviously, ideally we are all ambitious, motivated and learn everything out by figuring it out ourselves. Unfortunately, the real world and real kids just aren't like that. There needs to be some element of repetition and assessment to ensure that they have a basic level of knowledge that will be useful years down the road.

The system is not perfect, but it is not broken. They are not forcing the kid to go to school. They can just homeschool and take the provincial exams at the end of the training and prove to everybody that it works.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Regorium

This is another point. If the parents are so involved in their kid's educations, they should homeschool them, rather than force the whole system to change just for their kid.

Obviously, ideally we are all ambitious, motivated and learn everything out by figuring it out ourselves. Unfortunately, the real world and real kids just aren't like that. There needs to be some element of repetition and assessment to ensure that they have a basic level of knowledge that will be useful years down the road.

The system is not perfect, but it is not broken. They are not forcing the kid to go to school. They can just homeschool and take the provincial exams at the end of the training and prove to everybody that it works.

Of course assessment is a key part of education and students should be assessed very regularly, but testing is only one kind of assessment. Assessment can take many forms and those students could be assessed much more than 80 times per year exclusively using other assessment methods. Testing is common practice, but by no means is it necessary for effective assessment.

[bcb]

I lived in Germany from 1992-1995, so my last year in school there was Yr 7, or in Canada Grade 6. At this age in science class we more often than not were using things like bunson burners and blowing up things like sodium or magnesium. Sex education videos involved actually showing the penis entering the vagina.

Government, morality police and lawyers have pretty much removed all the sodium, magnesium and graphic sex ed. from elementary schools

Actually, the Jr high--> high school courses have ~15 wet labs per semester, so it isn't exactly all paperwork.

Like many people, I am not a book learner. I never took chemistry, or biology, or physics. Actually, it took me two tries to pass Math 24!!! Since I went to audio school, I can RT-60 a room (an RT-60 is a measurement of the sound absorbing properties of different construction materials) and then even shoot the room using pink noise to measure standing waves and place treatments accordingly. Once you get into the meat of it, it is some damn complicated physics...

So in your case, you excelled when it interested you, but if were an interested employer looking at your resume, and I knew it took you two tries to pass math 24 because you thought school math was boring, I'd worry about your work ethic and attention span drifting on a slow day, or if the task required any sort of application you thought was boring.
As I mentioned before, testing cannot possibly be the only means of assessment, but when used correctly, it is a valuable means of collecting summative data and evaluating knowledge outcomes.

[SebC]

"Co-ordinated and balanced with other means of assessment," is how Shelli Milley describes their goal for exams at St. Brigid school in Calgary.

Like, perhaps, assignments?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by SebC

Like, perhaps, assignments?

But not assignments that they need to do while little Johnny wants to be watching 90210 in the evenings, just during class!

[mykalberta]

These parents should just face facts that their kids are dumb. What a bunch of complainers.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

At Stanford, you see very few people studying 24-7.

Do you honestly believe this is any different than any other university in the world?

[troutman]

Most of what I know came from watching TV!

[GGG]

At some point during each year the kids should have to prove they have learnt the required knowledge of that year.

So I would be okay with 1 test per year per subject as long as the parents are okay with failing their kids if they fail that test. Really if they have been learning all year as these parents say they are then 1 year end test shouldn't be a problem but there will be no indication if their kids are struggling until they fail and have to repeat a grade.

In the end if these kids are smart then the tests should be easy and not a big deal if these kids need to me working more at school then the tests provide a good indicator of where they need help.

[troutman]

These parents would like Andy Richter's school on Arrested Development, "Openings":

http://www.sidereel.com/_post/182603

Lindsay: It’s the exact opposite. It’s called “Openings.”
Michael: Oh, great. That sounds like another one of those gradeless, structureless, new age feel-gooderies.

[CaptainCrunch]

I would be fine with 1 test worth 100% of their mark and any score less then 60% holds them back, and its one test combining all subjects in a random order.

1000 questions and 8 hours to complete it.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would be fine with 1 test worth 100% of their mark and any score less then 60% holds them back, and its one test combining all subjects in a random order.

1000 questions and 8 hours to complete it.

That would be hilarious.

"Alright class, here's your final exam worth 30% of your grade. You have 2 hours to write it. Oh, except for you (helicopter parent kid A). Yours is worth 100% of your final grade and you have 8 hours to write it. Did I mention if you get less than 60% in my class, I'm failing your ass? Good luck :-)"