Barack Obama believed to be a Muslim by one fifth of Americans

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Do I dare ask who you believe actually destroyed the Twin Towers? Or do I even need to?

We may never find out, but it seems to me like foreign and domestic intellegence services as well as some Bush administration insiders were atleast somewhat complicit.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

http://www.cordobainitiative.org/

Here's the link but, you won't find it anymore. The site is being cleaned.

So can you just give a play by play on what was said? Did he say "I am the first person to use the term ground zero mosque"?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

He might of been raised Catholic but, he was a practicing Atheist. He called his own pending death a "systems shutdown".

In any event that crime wasn't committed in the name of Jehovah. There also isn't a current Catholic organization trying to blow Oklahoma city today.

And if that was the case I'm sure the Catholic church would have enough empathy not to try to build a church near the building that was blown up or name the church after the location of the explosion. If they didn't I'm sure the city planners would have a say.

I agree with your point here. He declared before his execution that "science" was his religion, although he did request a Catholic chaplain too. Regardless, his motives had nothing to do with religion unlike 9/11.

McVeigh viewed himself as a patriot and soldier fighting for American freedom, so if there was an example using Timothy McVeigh, it would be like trying to block a military base or veteran's association from being built close to the OKC site since that is closer to matching his ideology (which would be ridiculous - just like trying to block a mosque near ground zero is dumb).

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I agree with your point here. He declared before his execution that "science" was his religion, although he did request a Catholic chaplain too. Regardless, his motives had nothing to do with religion unlike 9/11.

McVeigh viewed himself as a patriot and soldier fighting for American freedom, so if there was an example using Timothy McVeigh, it would be like trying to block a military base or veteran's association from being built close to the OKC site since that is closer to matching his ideology (which would be ridiculous - just like trying to block a mosque near ground zero is dumb).

Then clearly science should be banned! science is to blame for that bombing, and I will not tolerate Science centers in Oklahoma!

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Then clearly science should be banned! science is to blame for that bombing, and I will not tolerate Science centers in Oklahoma!

Furthermore, without science, there would be no airplanes and the Twin Towers would still be standing.

Q.E.D.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by puckluck

So can you just give a play by play on what was said? Did he say "I am the first person to use the term ground zero mosque"?

I'll try to find the guy's name who made the statement. He was interviewed on the Wilkow majority on Thursday I believe. He was an expert on Islamic relations and was on to sell his book. He referred to the site as the first known coining of the name "ground zero mosque". He wasn't implying that the site had an covert intent in the location but, rather was promoting it as a bridge.

The point being the site was picked with 9/11 in mind. If the purpose was really to promote understanding and tolerance between Islam and the rest of America than it was a failure before it even started. Another site within the city would do a lot to build trust and respect between Islam and the non-Islamic community.

Perhaps they should read the example of Jacob's well. Tolerance and peace aren't just words. People who desire them will demonstrate it by their actions.

[Montana Moe]

the Imam's name is Feisal Abdul Rauf, can't find any quotes linking him to coining the term "Ground Zero Mosque". Cordoba House and Park51, but nothing else.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I'll try to find the guy's name who made the statement. He was interviewed on the Wilkow majority on Thursday I believe. He was an expert on Islamic relations and was on to sell his book. He referred to the site as the first known coining of the name "ground zero mosque". He wasn't implying that the site had an covert intent in the location but, rather was promoting it as a bridge.

The point being the site was picked with 9/11 in mind. If the purpose was really to promote understanding and tolerance between Islam and the rest of America than it was a failure before it even started. Another site within the city would do a lot to build trust and respect between Islam and the non-Islamic community.

Perhaps they should read the example of Jacob's well. Tolerance and peace aren't just words. People who desire them will demonstrate it by their actions.

My head hurts just reading this.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Montana Moe

the Imam's name is Feisal Abdul Rauf, can't find any quotes linking him to coining the term "Ground Zero Mosque". Cordoba House and Park51, but nothing else.

He is a part of some interesting organizations.......

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by puckluck

My head hurts just reading this.

Go to MSNBC or the CBC for that matter and just drink whatever koolaid they are serving this evening. You'll be back to your own self in no time.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Don't waste your breath. Calgaryborn's ignorance is not an accident of circumstance but a crucial component of his worldview. He believes nothing that he does not already know to be true. That kind of worldview is utterly immune to reason or evidence.

So true.

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Americans have and continue to show tolerance and respect towards Muslims living in New York and across America. They bent over backwards not to lump them all into one basket. They did this even though the terrorist were found to come out of the same Mosques as their peace loving counterpart. America deserves a lot of credit for their restraint in trying times.

That sums it all up really.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

Go to MSNBC or the CBC for that matter and just drink whatever koolaid they are serving this evening. You'll be back to your own self in no time.

Seriously guy... is that the best you could do?

This isn't a right vs left issue at this point, you're just ignorant, dumb, slow, use whatever word you like.

There are people in this thread who could take your point of view and easily defend it better then you ever could. The arguments you use are embarrassing, they have nothing to do with each other. The building permits and city planning stuff was comedic gold.

[HOZ]

The people building the Cordoba Mosque/ Community Centre have every right under the law and Constitution of the USA to build their centre. Unless they are breaking the law there can be no legal opposition to it's creation.

That said.....

Tolerance is a two-way street.

This Cordoba project is suppose to build bridges of understanding. OK. So, questions I have...

1. How can you build bridges when 70+% of your neighbours see this project as deeply offensive? Wouldn't being open to the idea of moving this project to a different local be a great first step in bridge building?

2. How will this project build bridges? Will it be similar to a YMCA where anyone (Jews, Atheists, Christians, vegans, etc...) can come to use the facilities? Will this be a centre that will root out extremism and help steer people away from extremism?

3. Why build ANOTHER mosque in Manhattan? If Masjid is too small why not spend the money to upgrade that facility instead?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Do I dare ask who you believe actually destroyed the Twin Towers? Or do I even need to?

Don't do it HP, its based around a complex and physically impossible conspiracy pulled off by the American Government, the Jews and shadowy secret organizations built around the world elite.

But it comes down to a President who couldn't competently pull off a foreign war could instead pull off a complex plan involving shadowy technology while keeping thousands of people quiet.

It all was proven on a pamphlet that I saw stapled to a telephone poll outside of bunker in bowness.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Don't do it HP, its based around a complex and physically impossible conspiracy pulled off by the American Government, the Jews and shadowy secret organizations built around the world elite.

But it comes down to a President who couldn't competently pull off a foreign war could instead pull off a complex plan involving shadowy technology while keeping thousands of people quiet.

It all was proven on a pamphlet that I saw stapled to a telephone poll outside of bunker in bowness.

I must be getting to you as it seems you like to go out of your way to take lame pot shots at me...
Hey you forgot to include one of those awesome lizard man jokes.. (something that I have never talked about)

[MarchHare]

1. How can you build bridges when 70+% of your neighbours see this project as deeply offensive? Wouldn't being open to the idea of moving this project to a different local be a great first step in bridge building?

How do you define "neighbours"? In the Manhattan borough, 53% support the complex compared to 31% who oppose it.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-cont...enter_Site.htm

2. How will this project build bridges? Will it be similar to a YMCA where anyone (Jews, Atheists, Christians, vegans, etc...) can come to use the facilities? Will this be a centre that will root out extremism and help steer people away from extremism?

Funny you should mention the YMCA. That's exactly the model they're using for the center.

Oz Sultan, the programming director for the center, said the complex was based on Jewish community centers and Y.M.C.A.’s in Manhattan. It is to have a board composed of Muslim, Christian and Jewish leaders and is intended to create a national model of moderate Islam.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/ny...sque.html?_r=1

The founders of Cordoba House, as the Islamic Center is to be called, have said they would like it to be similar to the 92nd Street Y, a mainly Jewish organization that is open to the community no matter what their faith.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...-far-from-over

3. Why build ANOTHER mosque in Manhattan? If Masjid is too small why not spend the money to upgrade that facility instead?

A mosque is just one part of the building.

Plans are for the facility to include a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, food court serving halal dishes, and Islamic prayer space for 1,000–2,000 Muslims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park51

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I must be getting to you as it seems you like to go out of your way to take lame pot shots at me...
Hey you forgot to include one of those awesome lizard man jokes.. (something that I have never talked about)

When you post that it wasn't the Muslims that were responsible for the events on 9/11 then you deserve the pot shots.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When you post that it wasn't the Muslims that were responsible for the events on 9/11 then you deserve the pot shots.

Oh yeah well muslims did play the role of front-man for the job, that much is obvious....that's what I meant with "bad optics"..

[Reggie Dunlop]

Chicago Tribune

Some suggestion that the term Ground Zero Mosque was in fact coined by anti-Islamists.

The"Ground Zero Mosque" fiasco is a fabricated controversy that traces its origins to a couple of long-time anti-Muslim goons from the annals of the hate blogosphere by the names of Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller as a flagship campaign of their newly founded organization, Stop the Islamization of America (SIOA). SIOA is part of an emerging phenomenon of astroturf anti-Muslim organizations that seek to project any public expression of Muslim life in this country as tantamount to a stealth "Islamization of America." (Except it's not so stealth since everyone and their mother is talking about it).

[Reggie Dunlop]

Also, I wonder how much of the rhetoric out there ascribes to Poe's Law of Interwebz, which states that "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humour, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing."