Tamil Migrant Ship M/V Sun Sea will arrive Canada by Aug 14th - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

jolinar of malkshor · 08-06-2010, 10:12 PM

There needs to be a public debate on what to do with these people. We have already had one ship with 73 people make it to Canada. All of these people have made refugee claims and have been released into the public pending their claim.

Now we have another boat with 200+ entering within a week. There are reports that there are 2 more ships waiting to set sail. They are only waiting to see what happens with the Sun Sea. If the people on the Sun Sea are all allowed to make ref claims the reports suggest that the other 2 ships will set sail.

Is this really what Canada is about? Harbouring terrorists?

1stLand · 08-07-2010, 08:39 AM

Protect Canada's Arctic Sovereignty!

I say we settle them up North. Way up North. They can be homesteaders and live off seal meat.

They can also keep a watchful eye on American / Russian trespassers.

HPLovecraft · 08-07-2010, 08:58 AM

As long as they don't decide to hold Toronto hostage again. Jesus H. Christ, that pissed me off to no end.

killer_carlson · 08-07-2010, 09:51 AM

jolinar is right. We have to make a public statement about this as a nation, or we become open territory for every third world nation.

Turn the boat around. Plain and simple. There is a well subscribed process for making refugee claims and they can make a claim under that program. If we have to intervene politically to ensure these people are not executed upon their return, then we can do that.

Letting this boat land is no answer.

CaramonLS · 08-07-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I am not sure what you mean Caramon. Do you mean interviewing or interrogating is useless?

If that is all you are going by to determine if a refugee is a terrorist or not because they have no other means of ID... then yeah, it can be pretty useless.

I personally think the entire refugee process needs to be opened up for a lot of scrutiny. I do believe in the basics (actually we need to triple immigration in the next 10 years IMHO), but we still have to protect ourselves as a nation.

If that is going to be their primary information gathering technique used, then turn the ship around. Far too big of a risk.

Bill Bumface · 08-07-2010, 11:22 AM

They'll take our jerbs!!

killer_carlson · 08-07-2010, 05:41 PM

dont confuse immigrants with refugees.

Immigrants have skills we need or family who helps them settle.

Refugees is the "give your head a shake" kind of scenario. True, legitimate refugees have experienced the worst parts of humanity and Canada can find space to help these people out. We have a certain amount we accept each year and it is consistant with international agreements with other first world nations to do the same thing.

We need more immigrants in this country. Refugees, we can accept a limited amount because it is the right thing to do.

SeeBass · 08-07-2010, 05:47 PM

Is a tiger older than a cougar? I haven't been single for decades I don't know the order.

I say if those tigers are still good looking let them in.

CaptainCrunch · 08-07-2010, 05:51 PM

I respect the need to provide shelter and safety for refugees, however our current system is full of holes.

I believe that the policy has to be amended. If you can't prove your identity then you don't get in period. You don't get to leave the airport or the seaport, your turned around on the spot and your sent back.

CaramonLS · 08-07-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I respect the need to provide shelter and safety for refugees, however our current system is full of holes.

I believe that the policy has to be amended. If you can't prove your identity then you don't get in period. You don't get to leave the airport or the seaport, your turned around on the spot and your sent back.

Iceland also has a good policy - where they primarily focus on resettling women and children only (especially single mothers). Call it sexist if you will.

Devils'Advocate · 08-07-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You don't get to leave the airport or the seaport, your turned around on the spot and your sent back.

My french teacher escaped from Rwanda. The Hutu burned his home and chased him and his family into the woods. All of his documents were presumably destroyed in the fire; he never was able to go back and check. For some, for the very reason they want to be refugees, have no identification.

HOZ · 08-07-2010, 06:02 PM

Canada should follow Australia's example and create a processing centre on an island away from the public.
1. it prevents criminals from just disappearing into the crowds. Those that have their claims approved can come ashore. The others are sent back.
2. it has had a large influence on the numbers of refugees coming to their shores. Notice that these ships decided a long cruise to Canada was better?

killer_carlson · 08-07-2010, 06:09 PM

I agree. Australia has a model we can employ.

I see a lot of refugees through a pro bono clinic I do. Pretty rough stories these people have gone through and are accepted on the official record.

Where we need to spend more money is on settlement of teen children of refugee parents. For example, consider this scenario: A woman who has been brutally raped for years in a war torn country has a few kids as a result of the rape. It takes years to get to Canada and her kids are teens when they arrive. They have little or no formal education (not even grade 1). What they do have is usually not english. they arrive and mom works her butt off at a couple of very low paying jobs and the kids get put into schooling to try and catch up. A couple of months in, the local mafia shows up and asks the kid if he wants to keep reading Mr. Muggs and learning how to print, or he could go work for the mafia and own a leather jacket, blackberry and have spending money that very same day. Pretty easy decision for these kids. It's likely all they know and don't appreciate the altenatives.

We spend a lot on the refugee program, but lose too many on the back end of it. Similar to the end of the Tom Hanks movie Charlie Wilson's war. A little money on the back end would save lives and save a lot more money in the long run.

Hack&Lube · 08-07-2010, 06:39 PM

Australia however has a ridiculously larger problem with migrant ships than Canada does being that to get to Canada means navigating the biggest oceans in the world and into the northern climate. Australia is in the middle of the south pacific and has a huge problem with illegal migrants from south asia and the indian subcontinent, etc. I'm not sure Canada's problem with illegal migrants is as big to warrant any need for a specialized center as Australia. We just need to improve our management and processing of refugee claims and making sure that people don't just disappear in the middle of them.

Zulu29 · 08-07-2010, 06:46 PM

There are other countries they could flee to which are closer and still democratic. They choose Canada because we are suckers and they'll get the royal treatment here. Refugees make more money per month than an old age pensioner...go figure that one out.

CaptainCrunch · 08-07-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

My french teacher escaped from Rwanda. The Hutu burned his home and chased him and his family into the woods. All of his documents were presumably destroyed in the fire; he never was able to go back and check. For some, for the very reason they want to be refugees, have no identification.

Fabulous, then I amend my platform, if they don't have documentation, then we detain them until they can be documented.

We don't let them disappear.

At the same time, refugee or not, if you are charged with a crime in this country you are automatically deported with no appeal.

Flames Draft Watcher · 08-07-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Fabulous, then I amend my platform, if they don't have documentation, then we detain them until they can be documented.

We don't let them disappear.

At the same time, refugee or not, if you are charged with a crime in this country you are automatically deported with no appeal.

Just charged and not convicted? Sounds ridiculously harsh.

CaptainCrunch · 08-07-2010, 07:06 PM

fine convicted

Calgaryborn · 08-07-2010, 07:14 PM

I say build a refugee center in one of the Territories and don't allow them into the Provinces until they have sorted things out.

The idea about allowing women and children in with a little less scrutiny isn't a bad one either. I also think that refugees and Immigrants without specific needed skills should be required to settle in lower populated cities and towns. Big cities offer temptations and vices that will prey on anyone who is vulnerable and unsure of where they fit into society.

HPLovecraft · 08-07-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

I say build a refugee center in one of the Territories and don't allow them into the Provinces until they have sorted things out.

The idea about allowing women and children in with a little less scrutiny isn't a bad one either. I also think that refugees and Immigrants without specific needed skills should be required to settle in lower populated cities and towns. Big cities offer temptations and vices that will prey on anyone who is vulnerable and unsure of where they fit into society.

A refugee can find employment and work and start contributing to Canadian society far easier in a city than a little town where attitudes likely aren't as open to foreigners arriving and scooping up what little employment they have to offer.