You should google what they do with homosexuals in Iran.
Sarcasm detector fail... and with the emoticons too. Yikes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frinkprof
I think in most cases, straight men like to see fantastical/porn industry versions of lesbians, rather than the real-life versions of lesbians.
It may be hard to believe, but there are actually real lesbian couples where both are attractive. They're not all porn stars, but they're not all K.D. Langs either.
I've heard some very, very smart people tell me why homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry, always some derivation of Catholicism and natural law. I still can't figure out what the big deal is.
I think in most cases, straight men like to see fantastical/porn industry versions of lesbians, rather than the real-life versions of lesbians.
Anyways you get the point.
__________________
Thank you for everything CP. Good memories and thankful for everything that has been done to help me out. I will no longer take part on these boards. Take care, Go Flames Go.
I've heard some very, very smart people tell me why homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry, always some derivation of Catholicism and natural law. I still can't figure out what the big deal is.
Wait, did you just say 'natural law'? That brings back memories...
__________________ “The fact is that censorship always defeats it's own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion.”
The speculation is that the measure was split among whites but that hispanics and african americans tilted the scale.
Edit: And I'm not sure what liberal or conservative would have to do with it. This is a civil rights issue.
I remember from election day that CNN said almost 60% of African American and Hispanic voters voted against gay marriage. Doesn't sound very Mormon to me.
I personally think singling out one group for "return hate" is absolutely counterproductive.
Personally, I know 5 or 6 out gay mormons and they are treated better by their mormon friends than most of their gay friends--my roommate is one of them.
I have no problems with mormons at all, nicest people on the planet in my experience as a gay man from southern Alberta.
Look at that, the gay guy who defends mormons to the straights...
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to MRCboicgy For This Useful Post:
Sadly the religious right forgets all to often that there needs to be a separation between church and state. Which results in bigoted laws that outlaw what should be a right for everyone.
Agreed. This is a given. However, when people argue their arguments based on religion, they forget that there actually exists a stronger societal argument that has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. There's actually some really good secular arguments against things like gay marriage and polygamy and they are being made by people who aren't religious whatsoever.
That said, I'm a libertarian, so I don't care if they get married. I'm just playing devil's advocate on saying that the right only has religion as an argument.
Last edited by mariners_fever; 08-05-2010 at 01:52 AM.
Agreed. This is a given. However, when people argue their arguments based on religion, there actually exists a stronger societal argument that has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. There's actually some really good secular arguments against things like gay marriage and polygamy and they are being made by people who aren't religious whatsoever.
So your argument is that there are good arguments? What a good argument!
So your argument is that there are good arguments? What a good argument!
That isn't what I said. What I said wasn't even an argument, it was more of a point of information. Frustration, if you will, over the religious right's unwillingness to use secular societal arguments for the very same causes they forward. It would bring out less of the 'separate church from state' rebuttals they are usually met with and thus, hopefully, a more robust and civil debate.
The Following User Says Thank You to mariners_fever For This Useful Post:
They will pull your weeds or mow your lawn if you ask them too. All you do is accept "the book" afterwards and toss it in the trash when they leave..
The Book of Mormon is actually an interesting read.
In the sense of "this is the basis of a notable religion?!?"
It reads like really crappy epic fantasy novel. Of course you could categorize most holy books as epic fantasy, but the Book of Mormon is really on a different level.
"Lo and behold, I have readeth the bible and shall now write my own book of holiness and stuff"
(In case there are some mormons present, I'm terribly sorry about this, and I want you to know that as an non-religious person who has very little against religions as such, I don't consider the literary quality of the holy writings to be a significant issue. It's just that looking from the sidelines, things relating to religions can look pretty funny. Kinda like sports are often incomprehensible and ridiculous to people who are not into it.)
I remember from election day that CNN said almost 60% of African American and Hispanic voters voted against gay marriage. Doesn't sound very Mormon to me.
I personally think singling out one group for "return hate" is absolutely counterproductive.
Personally, I know 5 or 6 out gay mormons and they are treated better by their mormon friends than most of their gay friends--my roommate is one of them.
I have no problems with mormons at all, nicest people on the planet in my experience as a gay man from southern Alberta.
Look at that, the gay guy who defends mormons to the straights...
Yes, Mormons are nice. I've never known anyone that debates this. Unfortunately, thats not the whole story when it comes to this issue.
I remember from election day that CNN said almost 60% of African American and Hispanic voters voted against gay marriage. Doesn't sound very Mormon to me.
I personally think singling out one group for "return hate" is absolutely counterproductive.
Personally, I know 5 or 6 out gay mormons and they are treated better by their mormon friends than most of their gay friends--my roommate is one of them.
I have no problems with mormons at all, nicest people on the planet in my experience as a gay man from southern Alberta.
Look at that, the gay guy who defends mormons to the straights...
You should watch the doc The Mormon Proposition, the church elders basically forced good mormons who probably wouldn't have donated or got involved, to become activists and give incredible sums of money.
I also agree, singling out just one group isn't right, but the Mormon elders were responsible for abuses of their powers as well as being responsible for estimated 70% of the money behind the prop 8 campaign. Which they also did in Hawaii in the mid 90s to stop the gay rights prop there.
I read a great article from a black female blogger on the gay fear amongst the black community and the intolerance towards black gays within it.
Last year’s debate over California’s Proposition 8 exposed deep racial fault lines around the issue of same sex marriage in African American communities across the state. After polls showed an overwhelming number of blacks supported the initiative some liberal whites came out swinging, blaming blacks for the initiative’s defeat in racist diatribes against African American hypocrisy on civil rights. Black religiosity and social conservatism were deemed to be the “culprits” for the failure of same sex marriage to galvanize mainstream black support. As marriage equality advocates of color gear up for another organizing offensive in the wake of the California Supreme Court’s decision upholding Prop 8, it is abundantly clear that when it comes to gay rights, bucking the black religious establishment on civil rights “orthodoxy” continues to be a third rail issue.
I blame everyone who voted against this, there is yet to be a given a good reason to deny a group rights based mostly on a religious belief, in a nation which was founded on separation of church and state the founders would weep over what the US has become today, a democratic theocracy.
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
The Following User Says Thank You to Thor For This Useful Post:
Agreed. This is a given. However, when people argue their arguments based on religion, they forget that there actually exists a stronger societal argument that has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. There's actually some really good secular arguments against things like gay marriage and polygamy and they are being made by people who aren't religious whatsoever.
That said, I'm a libertarian, so I don't care if they get married. I'm just playing devil's advocate on saying that the right only has religion as an argument.
Actually in the recent massive gay marriage debate we had right here on CP not one good argument came up against it that wasn't based on religious ideology.
The only remotely close to reasonable one was the idea the government shouldn't be in the business of marriage, but obviously this is besides the point; it is and denying a segment of the society the same rights as others is a civil rights issue and is a governmental issue. In the USA's case its a constitutional issue.
The other glaring issue is the very large white elephant in the room, nobody who's against this issue likes to hear how many countries have legalized equal marriage and had no repercussions whatsoever. All the fear mongering and ludicrious lies made to scare people about gay marriage have never appeared in those nations who allow gay marriage and civil unions.
America is just behind the times, and that's simply due to the religious groups in the US which have such a strong influence and ties to political parties.
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
The Following User Says Thank You to Thor For This Useful Post:
Actually in the recent massive gay marriage debate we had right here on CP not one good argument came up against it that wasn't based on religious ideology.
The only remotely close to reasonable one was the idea the government shouldn't be in the business of marriage, but obviously this is besides the point; it is and denying a segment of the society the same rights as others is a civil rights issue and is a governmental issue. In the USA's case its a constitutional issue.
The other glaring issue is the very large white elephant in the room, nobody who's against this issue likes to hear how many countries have legalized equal marriage and had no repercussions whatsoever. All the fear mongering and ludicrious lies made to scare people about gay marriage have never appeared in those nations who allow gay marriage and civil unions.
America is just behind the times, and that's simply due to the religious groups in the US which have such a strong influence and ties to political parties.
Well nothing bad has happened in those countries yet, but you just wait and see, pretty soon people will be marrying their pets, their furniture, cardboard cut-outs of John Stamos, and all sorts of other things. It'll be so horrible for everyone.
Btw, what/where the hell is Wallis and Futuna? Do I have to go through a wardrobe to get there?
I remember from election day that CNN said almost 60% of African American and Hispanic voters voted against gay marriage. Doesn't sound very Mormon to me.
I personally think singling out one group for "return hate" is absolutely counterproductive.
Personally, I know 5 or 6 out gay mormons and they are treated better by their mormon friends than most of their gay friends--my roommate is one of them.
I have no problems with mormons at all, nicest people on the planet in my experience as a gay man from southern Alberta.
Look at that, the gay guy who defends mormons to the straights...
Actually in the recent massive gay marriage debate we had right here on CP not one good argument came up against it that wasn't based on religious ideology.
Well, I remember giving a pretty post-modern attempt to discredit the tyrannical spread of bourgeous morality.
