Thierry Henry signs in MLS

[GirlySports]

This comparison is pretty strange. The MLS is only 14 years old.

Don't compare them to anything, just hope it develops.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

No one said their were better players in the Championship than Henry or Beckham, but the teams around them are not, nor did anyone say anything about attendance

from watching League 1 games, and MLS games (I probly only see 5-10 a year) I think their is a similar amount of talent on the field. When compared to Championship games I think their is a pretty big gap compared to the MLS.

But again its my opinion, don't know why it angered you so much

Not angry at all, apologies if I came off that way.

I think that out of the 40 players who were in the player pool for the US world cup squad about 18 of them were from the MLS. Now only 4 made the final 23 but I do think it illustrates that MLS is a league with significant talent throughout. Probably another 4 or 5 in the Mexican player pool are in that league as well. I don't think there is one team in League 1 with 3 or 4 internationals on a top 15 nation in the world, probably not many championship teams either.

I think watching it is super crappy, mainly because of the atmosphere when you tune in and see a game in a place like Kansas City where there are 5K there out of a claimed 10-15K and they are so very quiet. I think that the quality of the football gets a bad rap because of how crappy the atmosphere is which is why I addressed crowds.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Not angry at all, apologies if I came off that way.

I think that out of the 40 players who were in the player pool for the US world cup squad about 18 of them were from the MLS. Now only 4 made the final 23 but I do think it illustrates that MLS is a league with significant talent throughout. Probably another 4 or 5 in the Mexican player pool are in that league as well. I don't think there is one team in League 1 with 3 or 4 internationals on a top 15 nation in the world, probably not many championship teams either.

That likely has more to do with the lack of talent in the Mexican and US team compared to the European teams. If those guys playing in the second tier European leagues would likely have a shot at making teams like Mexico or the US.

I think watching it is super crappy, mainly because of the atmosphere when you tune in and see a game in a place like Kansas City where there are 5K there out of a claimed 10-15K and they are so very quiet. I think that the quality of the football gets a bad rap because of how crappy the atmosphere is which is why I addressed crowds.

The quality of football gets a bad rap because it is crappy quality.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by moon

That likely has more to do with the lack of talent in the Mexican and US team compared to the European teams. If those guys playing in the second tier European leagues would likely have a shot at making teams like Mexico or the US.



The quality of football gets a bad rap because it is crappy quality.

I dislike the US and Mexican teams as a fan of the Canadian Nats but they are both very good international sides with results to match. Out of the group stage a combined 8 of the last 10 world cup attempts - they are better than the vast majority of national teams in Europe, both in FIFA rankings and in results.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I dislike the US and Mexican teams as a fan of the Canadian Nats but they are both very good international sides with results to match. Out of the group stage a combined 8 of the last 10 world cup attempts - they are better than the vast majority of national teams in Europe, both in FIFA rankings and in results.

Both teams looked very weak at this years world cup and benefitted from weak groups.

The US "results" have, for the most part, come against second rate teams in games that don't matter. They live off that win against Spain in which Spain didn't care and a fluke run in the WC where they beat nobody to try and justify there crap play most of the time.

Look at the guys that played on that team not one would get a sniff at the top teams in the world and their "best" player is a mediocre player on a mediocre team in England.

Making the Mexican or US national team is not that difficult and the players that are there right now are proof of that.

[Matty81]

They've both been making the last 16 teams in the world cup over and over again for almost 20 years. To me, those are games that matter. Are they as good as Brazil or Spain? No, but they have demonstrated consistently for a long time that they are in the top 20 in the world.

I think that how successful players are in England has pretty much been debunked as an international measuring stick after the last world cup. Great leagues, but a totally unique style of play that most other competitions in the world are completely different from.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Matty81

They've both been making the last 16 teams in the world cup over and over again for almost 20 years. To me, those are games that matter. Are they as good as Brazil or Spain? No, but they have demonstrated consistently for a long time that they are in the top 20 in the world.

THE US have made the round of 16 what 3 times in the last 6 tournaments? maybe 4. Not that impressive, especially when they have looked fairly weak in doing so and routinely beat

I think that how successful players are in England has pretty much been debunked as an international measuring stick after the last world cup. Great leagues, but a totally unique style of play that most other competitions in the world are completely different from.

I used England as an example as it is really the only place that Americans play overseas.

The reality is that American players aren't good enough to play on the top teams in the world and as such it makes it easier for the lesser talented guys playing in crap leagues like MLS to make their national team.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Personal opinion but I totally disagree with you - I'm no big MLS fan but I watch a fair bit of both leagues and the 3rd division or league 1 is garbage compared to MLS. The level of domestic talent in England is very very poor right now and attendance does not = quality of play.

Having watched a fair bit of League 1 last year and watching the occasional MLS match when I was living here, I have to disagree with your comments about League 1. Personally, I think the combined talent level of a squad in the League 1 is higher than their equivalent in the MLS (i.e. Norwich combined would be higher than RSL combined). England are not developing players to the necessary quality level they are still churning off talented and fully-developed footballers. For instance, would an MLS team be able to handle an entire season in League One?

[Matty81]

Since the MLS started, in 94, the US made every world cup, 3 out of 5 rounds of 16, and one QF. To me it's impressive but I know that's subjective, I think most teams in Europe would take it - I don't think they've looked poor at all in the last world cup either. If their main feeder league the MLS was truly a super crappy league than the national team would be getting lit up internationally, which they are not.

There's no doubt that the grind of League 1 doesn't compare to MLS. I think League 1 is a gritty football that is completely different from MLS, most players from MLS wouldn't thrive there and I know that most League 1 players don't make the grade in MLS where there is more time on the ball. For me League 1 teams are tougher and more tenacious but MLS teams are faster and better technically.

It comes down to a pretty subjective observation, I think a team like RSL with about 7 US capped international players was significantly better than Norwich last year but I can see where someone who doesn't respect the US national team wouldn't see that.

Sounding like a big MLS guy now, even though I don't care for it hugely. I am looking forward to following the Canaries this season with Simeon joining them though.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I dislike the US and Mexican teams as a fan of the Canadian Nats but they are both very good international sides with results to match. Out of the group stage a combined 8 of the last 10 world cup attempts - they are better than the vast majority of national teams in Europe, both in FIFA rankings and in results.

if the US and Mexico had to qualify through Europe though they would have serious problems even making world cups, their qualification success has a lot to do with CONCACAF being a very poor zone in terms of quality teams.

I don't trust the FIFA rankings at all though, they had the US as the 4th best team in world football in 2006

[moon]

Originally Posted by Matty81

Since the MLS started, in 94, the US made every world cup, 3 out of 5 rounds of 16, and one QF. To me it's impressive but I know that's subjective, I think most teams in Europe would take it - I don't think they've looked poor at all in the last world cup either. If their main feeder league the MLS was truly a super crappy league than the national team would be getting lit up internationally, which they are not.

I guess we will have to disagree here as I thought they were thoroughly outplayed by England, a bad Slovenia team dominated them for a half before totally quitting and allowing the US into the game, looked okay against Algeria (but who wouldn't) and then again thoroughly outplayed by Ghana.

They had 3 good halves (2 in Algeria and 1 in Slovenia matches) in 4 games in the WC. They are lucky that Greene made that horrible gaffe or they might not even have gone through or would have got destroyed by the Germans.

They looked poor when playing the better teams they were matched against and those teams weren't any good themselves.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Until big names that are still good come over this is just like ARK2 said. Dead end league.

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

Its not trying to bash the MLS or sound snobbish, but it is what it is, until they get good (not even elite, just good) players to sign during their prime it will be known as a retirement league

What do you guys expect? For it to go from inception to having high end prime talent instantly?

Signings like this show it's heading in a direction where it will have higher talent levels in years to come. You have to expect transition and the league is still relatively young.

5-10 years from now? good chance we'll be seeing some current stars give it a look.

Besides that, is Henry really that washed up? He's coming from what is likely the best club team in the world and still a member of the national team on what should have been one of the strongest nations. I don't think he's as washed out as some here are acting, and bet he could still be a strong player on some EPL teams if he had gone their instead.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Matty81

There's no doubt that the grind of League 1 doesn't compare to MLS. I think League 1 is a gritty football that is completely different from MLS, most players from MLS wouldn't thrive there and I know that most League 1 players don't make the grade in MLS where there is more time on the ball. For me League 1 teams are tougher and more tenacious but MLS teams are faster and better technically.

While the MLS teams may be better technically, I never thought I'd say that about American teams, that doesn't mean that they are better than League One clubs. After watching quite a bit of both leagues, when you compare the two leagues the MLS would be a 3-Star technically-oriented league relative to the grittier 3½-Star rated League One.

[GirlySports]

I don't know about European players coming to MLS but I think in a few years it could be a place for young South American players to come and make some money. Seattle's Montero is an example.

Those South American leagues aren't the greatest to play in with the stress and pressure. Living in the US would be better.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

What do you guys expect? For it to go from inception to having high end prime talent instantly?

Signings like this show it's heading in a direction where it will have higher talent levels in years to come. You have to expect transition and the league is still relatively young.

5-10 years from now? good chance we'll be seeing some current stars give it a look.

Besides that, is Henry really that washed up? He's coming from what is likely the best club team in the world and still a member of the national team on what should have been one of the strongest nations. I don't think he's as washed out as some here are acting, and bet he could still be a strong player on some EPL teams if he had gone their instead.

I have no problem with what the MLS is doing, its just becoming a league where old stars go for one last paycheck. A signing like this doesn't change that and doesn't signal to me that its heading in a direction where it will have higher talent for years to come.

I think its ceiling is as high as the growth of the sport in America, I do not think it is ever going to be as big as the current top leagues in England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France or Russia (at least in our lifetime). But I think it could easily slot in to that next tier with the Portuguese, Greek, Dutch etc. leagues which are mostly filled with home grown players and a few from the surrounding countries in the next 10-15 years.

In terms of Henry being washed up I don't think he is completely but the only team outside of New York that is rumored to have shown interest in him was West Ham.

He is still going to be the most talented player in the MLS just based on his ability with the ball, but where he has fallen is off the ball where he doesn't have the pace anymore to effect play without it. But in Europe he doesn't have it anymore to be a factor for an elite team, and I don't think he wanted any part of going to what he deems a "lower class" team i.e a mid table team

[SebC]

Just to add some fuel to this argument, how about the MLS All-Star Games?

2005 MLS beats Fulham 4-1
2006 MLS beats Chelsea 1-0
2007 MLS beats Celtic 2-0
2008 MLS beats West Ham 3-2
2009 MLS loses to Everton in penalties

Gotta think this gives the MLS some cred. Sure it's all their best players against quite possibly the B squads in a game they just don't care about, but the MLS Allstars don't practice together either.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I think watching it is super crappy, mainly because of the atmosphere when you tune in and see a game in a place like Kansas City where there are 5K there out of a claimed 10-15K and they are so very quiet. I think that the quality of the football gets a bad rap because of how crappy the atmosphere is which is why I addressed crowds.

To be fair, some MLS crowds are pretty rowdy, but they are few and far between (Seattle, Philly, and Toronto are the ones I'm thinking of specifically). I think this will improve with the entry into more traditional markets, who have a bit of soccer history (Portland, Vancouver and Montreal).

I'm sure the NHL in 1931 was having issues developing as well...

[Nuje]

A friend from England had a great facebook status this week. Thierry Henry signs with the MLS New York Red Bulls. Fitting that he goes to the country where what they call football is played using mostly hands.

[rubecube]

Galaxy to sign Ronaldinho?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...nsfers&cc=5901

[Locke]

Ronaldinho has certainly fallen a long, long ways. I always get the impression that its an attitude thing. Nothing to do with fitness or injury, he just thinks hes the best player ever and hes become insanely lazy.