New visible gang in Calgary?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MJM

OUrs are, Toronto's aren't. Their gang problem rivals that of any major American city.

And as someone as already mentioned, the native gang problem on the reservation rivals that of any intercity gang. We just don't hear about it much off the reservation. My wife works in that field, and you'd be blown away with what goes on in a place like Hobema.

What??? I just watched a show that showed Toronto having one of the lowest voilent crime rates in North America (per capita), and it stated that their gang problems are miniscule compared to most major American cities.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by flameswin

What??? I just watched a show that showed Toronto having one of the lowest voilent crime rates in North America (per capita),

Just wondering, is this just Toronto or does that statistic include the rest of the city.

Toronto is just a small part of the actual city.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by frege64

Toronto has the lowest violent crime rate of any major city in North America and is also, by a long shot, the safest major city in Canada. Stop posting BS.

You're posting BS if you think Toronto is safer than Ottawa or Quebec City by a long shot.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

You're posting BS if you think Toronto is safer than Ottawa or Quebec City by a long shot.

I guess it depends what people are reffering to when they say major city. When i say 'major city', I'm thinking of big city centres IE: Chicago, Toronto, Philly, New York, Atlanta etc. Not smaller cities like Ottawa and Quebec City.

[GGG]

Legalize all drugs and prostitution, tax and treat addicts.

Net profit to government and decreased crime. The money currently spent on prison's gets spent on rehab centers. Prohibition of alchohol didn't work. Any action that is done to your body with your consent should be legalized. The fact that entire countries are destroyed because of the drug trade is ridiculus. Afganistan, Columbia, Mexico.

You have to either make it legal or attack the demand side of the equation. So either you have to heavily criminalize posession of small amounts of drugs to get rid of White coller use or legalize it.

Reducing punishments to users while increasing punishments to distributers just drives up the price and therefore the lucritiveness of the trade.

[Ducay]

Hey OP, you should probably update your thread title, its a bit misleading.



Because they aren't visible at night........ unless they're smiling. J/K, I had to go there

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

Legalize all drugs and prostitution, tax and treat addicts.

Net profit to government and decreased crime. The money currently spent on prison's gets spent on rehab centers. Prohibition of alchohol didn't work. Any action that is done to your body with your consent should be legalized. The fact that entire countries are destroyed because of the drug trade is ridiculus. Afganistan, Columbia, Mexico.

You have to either make it legal or attack the demand side of the equation. So either you have to heavily criminalize posession of small amounts of drugs to get rid of White coller use or legalize it.

Reducing punishments to users while increasing punishments to distributers just drives up the price and therefore the lucritiveness of the trade.

So these drugs that your legalizing, who's going to manufacture it? Hows the distribution going to work? Are you actually talking about legalizing truly destructive drugs like crystal Meth? Crack? Heroin?

I'm also curious about the legalization of grass? For taxation purposes, who's going to grow it, how are you going to track it for taxation of it?

[Muta]

Why can't people just get ordinary jobs and leave the drug dealing to the pharmacists...

It's just too bad that people choose the gang route. Some people just have too much anger and rage built up inside them.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So these drugs that your legalizing, who's going to manufacture it? Hows the distribution going to work? Are you actually talking about legalizing truly destructive drugs like crystal Meth? Crack? Heroin?

I'm also curious about the legalization of grass? For taxation purposes, who's going to grow it, how are you going to track it for taxation of it?

Legalize everything, Meth, Heroine, Crack.

As for who his going to produce it I assume the big drug companies would take care of the hard chemicals rather quickly. For the Cannibas products your average farmer would be able to take care of it.

For pot it would just become another cash crop like wheat or barley. For small growers for personal use it would be much like your garden. For large scale operations you could have a wheat board for pot regulating and grading or it could be done privately. For the Sale of Cannibus I would see that being done in the same manner as liquor. For harder drugs I think you would limit the amount of dispenceries to decrease crime and security around them.

Now if just Canada did it it would be difficult to aquire things like Coke without going through Cartels however if it was a North American change then and Mexico and Columbia would legitamize the growing of the plants. The transition to legality would be similar to the beer barons of the thirties when the Bronfmans got rich illegally supplying booze to the states and continued to get rich legally afterwards.

The real question is what happens to society. Do you not do Meth because it is illegal or because it is stupid? Personally I don't do it because it is stupid. Right now treatment programs are heavily taxed and not always available. Like many vices some people won't be able to handle it but societies job isn't to make decisions for us. We should just ensure we are there to support when people want to escape their addictions.

[Traditional_Ale]

^So true. There are always going to be people who want help and need it. Some of those may have had no "legitimate" reason to ever begin using, but that is a moot point if they are sincerely asking for help. Would the expanded cost of treatment for legalized addicts really outweigh the cost of the judicial system making this a criminal matter. They need doctors, not lawyers.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

Legalize everything, Meth, Heroine, Crack.

So then you should be really upset with the efforts to limit smoking, I mean that's costing us tax dollars. Beyond that, then all of the talk about smoking taxing the health system is wrong, because not only should smokers get paid to go to rehab to quit smoking if they desire, but free lung transplants for everyone.

Beyond that, legalizing hideously addictive drugs, that cause major medical and mental issues is something that I wouldn't want to see the government get involved in. I'm fine with legalizing grass as long as there's quality control and heavy taxation and penalties for illegal sales of it, but I don't really like the idea of people being able to by crystal meth.

Originally Posted by GGG

As for who his going to produce it I assume the big drug companies would take care of the hard chemicals rather quickly. For the Cannibas products your average farmer would be able to take care of it.

So what about the people that produce it illegally and sell it illegally. they don't have to pay into the tax system so they can probably sell it for less then the government or make it more potent. And in this day and age of designer drugs where the dealers don't have to care about quality control they're still going to be there.

You don't think that the gangs and drug dealers are going to just throw up their hands and surrender and go get jobs at McDonalds. They're going to find another way to make money.

Originally Posted by GGG

For pot it would just become another cash crop like wheat or barley. For small growers for personal use it would be much like your garden. For large scale operations you could have a wheat board for pot regulating and grading or it could be done privately. For the Sale of Cannibus I would see that being done in the same manner as liquor. For harder drugs I think you would limit the amount of dispenceries to decrease crime and security around them.

so Joe blow grows some dope in his garden, he decides to sell some to his buddy, Is he a tax evader?

And what about the stores that carry the really high end drugs like coke and crystal and heroin. So some guy gets hooked on it, loses his job because drug testing in the work place suddenly becomes much more important. Isn't he just going to either rob his neighbor for the money to buy it or worse yet buy a gun to steal it?

Originally Posted by GGG

Now if just Canada did it it would be difficult to aquire things like Coke without going through Cartels however if it was a North American change then and Mexico and Columbia would legitamize the growing of the plants. The transition to legality would be similar to the beer barons of the thirties when the Bronfmans got rich illegally supplying booze to the states and continued to get rich legally afterwards.

I doubt it would be the end of the cartel, like any business if one market dries up they'll either find another market or another product.

Because of the cheap labour down there, and the mass production of it and again no taxation, I have serious doubts that the government is going to make a cheaper more potent product.

Originally Posted by GGG

The real question is what happens to society. Do you not do Meth because it is illegal or because it is stupid? Personally I don't do it because it is stupid. Right now treatment programs are heavily taxed and not always available. Like many vices some people won't be able to handle it but societies job isn't to make decisions for us. We should just ensure we are there to support when people want to escape their addictions.

So we're definately going to have to increase on the job drug testing, especially any job involving any kind of danger or required productivity. These harder drugs are not like Alcohol where you can go for a drink after work. Ask any heroin addict or hard drug addict how often they take the drugs and why. In the end it s not about getting high, its about getting normal. And even offering rehab doesn't guarantee a normalization in peoples lives. they're always addicted and its rare that the first time rehab actually works.

Sometimes society has to protect people from themselves especially the weak .

I've had friends who have become hooked on the really nasty drugs, and I think that there's a special place in hell for people that sell drugs, especially to kids. I don't want to see the government in that business.

I know that the counter argument is smokes and booze, but compare how quickly heroin and crack and coke and meth destroy lives and how people that use those drugs are never ever normal again, and a part of them always craves them. The destructive quantity of those drugs can't be argued.

And you can argue that legalizing them will put the dealers out of business, but they'll just find other things that they can make in a bathtub with a cookstove and some over the shelf chemicals.

And the drug cartels are so vast and so efficient that they can compete on the streets with anything the government does, the time to think about legalization would have been 40 years ago, but its too late now.

Just my 2 cents.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Call my opinion what you want but I am not naive.



As I pointed out they don't do it at noon in front of the mall or by a hail of indiscriminate bullets pointed at a house in the night.



I did say that I wished they would get rid of the meth and crack, I don't know much about prostitutes but they do say it's the oldest profession, not fair to blame the bikers for that.



Fair enough, and like I said, the drug trade isn't going anywhere, but I would rather have it controlled by the bikers, at least they have some honor and leave society in relative peace.

I think you are making good points, but you are only looking at the management side of the bikers and the street level crime for everyone else. Regardless of who runs the big show, you are still going to see street level drug dealers, and they would be responsible for the kind of crimes you are taking issue with.

You'd be surprised how many of these street level guys you despise so much are actually workign for the Hell's Angels (maybe not directly but in the same food chain).

[feartheflames]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I don't even need the blue.

you are an ignorant human being being

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by feartheflames

you are an ignorant human being being

No, I'm just a real serious non-joking racist.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by feartheflames

you are an ignorant human being being

[feartheflames]

^^^ you need to understand that these stereotypes are very real, and since I don't know you- I take what you say at face value.... mock me all you want, but as someone who was raised by black people, you need to understand how ludicrous and prejuidiced you sound

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by feartheflames

^^^ you need to understand that these stereotypes are very real, and since I don't know you- I take what you say at face value.... mock me all you want, but as someone who was raised by black people, you need to understand how ludicrous and prejuidiced you sound

Is this your first time on the internet?

[feartheflames]

no im just a person who thinks racist jokes aren't funny

[SteveToms]

So a black man walked into a bar...

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by SteveToms

So a black man walked into a bar...

How much money did he make out with?