World Cup South Africa, 2010 Thread

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

No game would ever finish properly though, every game would end due to forfeit in the 14th minute.

Then a lot of fans are going to hate a player.

I am not talking dives where there's some contact and a guy embellishes a bit. I am talking flagrant stuff like the one here and the one that the Italian guy did earlier in the tourney.

[NBC]

The game has already been slowed down through the theatrics and antics of many players flopping about wasting time. Years ago time added on was marginal, unlike today where it is not uncommon to see 5 or 6 minutes of added time.

Incorporating some technology into the game will not slow anything down and it may help curb the culture of cheating that is so prevalent in many footballing nations. But FIFA needs to believe that the changes will be for the good and not make them half-arsed. That is the real question and I for one can't see any proper changes because that corrupt idiot Blatter doesn't really believe anything needs to change.

[Eagle Eye]

You should suspend the guy for the next game (or the rest of the tournament) if there is a blatant dive on video, refs can't always see during the game, so rely on it after.

[GirlySports]

Again, we have a different viewpoint in NA. Diving is celebrated in many parts of the world. If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. If you don't try to con the ref you're stupid. Embarass the opponent and get him sent off.

Why is soccer the target? Do you get up in arms in basketball when a player flops to fake taking a charge? Those calls can change the game. Or if a punter or QBs named Tom Brady fake getting hit to get a 15 yard penalty to extend the drive? Should that team have to forfeit?

Get better refs, Get two refs!

Thank god latinos don't play hockey.

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Again, we have a different viewpoint in NA. Diving is celebrated in many parts of the world. If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. If you don't try to con the ref you're stupid. Embarass the opponent and get him sent off.

Why is soccer the target? Do you get up in arms in basketball when a player flops to fake taking a charge? Those calls can change the game. Or if a punter or QBs named Tom Brady fake getting hit to get a 15 yard penalty to extend the drive? Should that team have to forfeit?

Get better refs, Get two refs!

Thank god latinos don't play hockey.

Mike Ribeiro was strongly reviled for this 2004 dive.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Mike Ribeiro was strongly reviled for this 2004 dive.

Reviled by who? the league didn't do anything. No different than we fans yelling around Spaniards

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Reviled by who? the league didn't do anything. No different than we fans yelling around Spaniards

Strongly reviled by ME. I had him in my playoff pool that year and I voluntarily removed him after that.

In all seriousnes, and I don't have anything to cite, journalists mentioned that Ribeiro became a hated player (by other players) for his antics. I remember it being mentioned a couple of years after the fact.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by Regulator75

This sport is about as legit as ice dancing.

Far be it from me to defend Spanish players for diving but you have the wrong angle. The side view did show the Portugal player clipping the Spaniard in the head with his elbow.

How hard, only they know, but there was contact.

This video is takes up the action just after the foul.

Not the best video but it has music (1:07):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ibCmluiCsk

[NBC]

My sense is that the theatrical or 'cheating' component of football is a relatively modern construct. I get the feeling - from older fans of the game - that game play was much different 40 or 50 years ago. I'm not sure when theatrics became such a large part of the game in many countries, but this hasn't always been the case.

The game has developed in such a way that cheating has become not only acceptable but encouraged. You see top players like Messi, C. Ronaldo, Robben and Drogba flopping around like sea lions and there has to be a knock-on effect at the grassroots levels of football in many places. Former greats such as Puskas, Eusebio, Pele, Georgie Best, di Stefano, Cruyff and der Kaiser, all played the game as it should be played - fairly.

I may be totally wrong here, but this whole thing seems to be a fairly modern phenomenon and not something that has deep historical roots in association football.

[GirlySports]

That's great NBC.

My theory is (like hockey) the game was much rougher back then and policed itself. I've heard stories that if players tried to dive and fake injuries they'd get a real injury! A kick in the nads. If you watch old footage the game was rough and the ref didn't care.

Also results are more important today so there's pressure on winning. When Brazil won the 3 World Cups in 4 tournaments, it was nice but it wasn't really that important. Like most sports it was more fun and innocent back then. Two teams played and the better team won.

Now the pressure to win is intense and the entire world's eyeballs are watching so in order to win, you're going to have to find ways to cheat if you're the little guy against the big guy (ie Argentina V England).

[North East Goon]

I have been dissapointed in Torres's play thus far.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Again, we have a different viewpoint in NA. Diving is celebrated in many parts of the world. If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. If you don't try to con the ref you're stupid. Embarass the opponent and get him sent off.

Why is soccer the target? Do you get up in arms in basketball when a player flops to fake taking a charge? Those calls can change the game. Or if a punter or QBs named Tom Brady fake getting hit to get a 15 yard penalty to extend the drive? Should that team have to forfeit?

Get better refs, Get two refs!

Thank god latinos don't play hockey.

So why are you a Flames fan and not a canuck fan?

Soccer is a target because it happens 100 times a game. I haven't seen many players in the NBA flop and they have to stop play for 5 minutes getting a stretcher.

and using football players as examples is just ridiculous. Plays are so short and quick you don't have time to think about diving. But yeah Brady sure faked that injury. He did it so well he missed the rest of the season after week 1.

Soccer could be a better sport if they would stop thinking it's the 1800s and get with the times.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

So why are you a Flames fan and not a canuck fan?

Since when have I said I liked diving. Don't be a dork

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

So why are you a Flames fan and not a canuck fan?

Soccer is a target because it happens 100 times a game. I haven't seen many players in the NBA flop and they have to stop play for 5 minutes getting a stretcher.

and using football players as examples is just ridiculous. Plays are so short and quick you don't have time to think about diving. But yeah Brady sure faked that injury. He did it so well he missed the rest of the season after week 1.

Soccer could be a better sport if they would stop thinking it's the 1800s and get with the times.

I generally agree with your point, but the part about football is just plain wrong. Recievers dive all the time to draw PI flags, QB's go down at a hint of contact to draw roughing the passer flags, as do kickers, and plenty of guys will send themselves flying on a hit at the whistle to get a call.

It's not quite the same as in soccer, but it exists in every sport. The thing that sets soccer apart is the faked injuries, you don't see that nearly as much in any other sport.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by valo403

I generally agree with your point, but the part about football is just plain wrong. Recievers dive all the time to draw PI flags, QB's go down at a hint of contact to draw roughing the passer flags, as do kickers, and plenty of guys will send themselves flying on a hit at the whistle to get a call.

It's not quite the same as in soccer, but it exists in every sport. The thing that sets soccer apart is the faked injuries, you don't see that nearly as much in any other sport.

Yup. Because the prize for faking isn't as high in other sports. In football you can roll around on the ground grabbing you leg all you want, all you're going to get is 15 yards and everyone laughing at you.

But in soccer, that red card is game changer and players will fake to get other players booked ot sent off. It's an unfortunate part of the modern game as NBC stated earlier. And the dumb ref falls for it all the time. Especially these flamboyant South American refs who want attention and looking for an excuse to flash a red card!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yup. Because the prize for faking isn't as high in other sports. In football you can roll around on the ground grabbing you leg all you want, all you're going to get is 15 yards and everyone laughing at you.

But in soccer, that red card is game changer and players will fake to get other players booked ot sent off. It's an unfortunate part of the modern game as NBC stated earlier. And the dumb ref falls for it all the time. Especially these flamboyant South American refs who want attention and looking for an excuse to flash a red card!

I don't know that it's fair to put all the blame on the refs, it's a fast game on a massive field and they're supposed to pick up often small touches from 30 yards away. Not an easy task. It's especially tough when every call or missed call can be disected from multiple angles in super slo-mo. I'm not saying they don't deserve part of the blame, but there are certainly calls that it's tough to point at the ref for considering all the circumstances. The players have to take some responsibility, if prominent players took a stand against diving it would be a big step. The issue is that many of the most prominent players are also the most prominent divers. If only they could get the Keano treatment as punishment.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Since when have I said I liked diving. Don't be a dork

Well you like soccer and you typed this. I can put 2 and 2 together.

Again, we have a different viewpoint in NA. Diving is celebrated in many parts of the world. If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. If you don't try to con the ref you're stupid. Embarass the opponent and get him sent off.

[Locke]

Ugh, 2 days with no soccer? Weak sauce World Cup, weak sauce....

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Well you like soccer and you typed this. I can put 2 and 2 together.

Again, we have a different viewpoint in NA. Diving is celebrated in many parts of the world. If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. If you don't try to con the ref you're stupid. Embarass the opponent and get him sent off.

Your adding is bad

[Slava]

Girly, I'm not going to search through the 160 pages but you've basically defended the diving a number of times. It certainly gives the impression that you are favour, whether that is your intention or not.

The solution (like a few of the problems the sport faces) is so simple. A quick video review after the game where the officials hand out suspensions for flagrant dives. They release the video and the suspension at the same time and voila, diving ceases to be an issue at almost the exact same time.

I do wish that the offsides weren't an issue once the ball was at the top of the box as well. The whole point of the offside is to prevent cherry picking, and once the ball is that close the rule has served its purpose. From there on in the players could actually not worry about offsides. Might result in a few more goals, but might also result in a few more breakouts going the other way if teams were over zealous.

I know that the soccer purists hate these things, but just like everything else, the game should evolve.